Special Educator Karen Bures will share how she was able to reduce and eliminate the use of restraint and seclusion in her classroom.
Karen Bures is a special education teacher working with students who may display intense behaviors in Bend, Oregon. Karen started her career working in residential treatment care, transitioned into child welfare through the state, and then took a hiatus to be a stay-at-home parent. Once Karen’s children began school, she moved into the education field primarily to be on the same schedule as her children. Karen soon discovered that she was passionate about helping kids navigate the system. She began as an educational assistant in the behavior program before obtaining her special education licensure.
Karen continues to work to educate and coach other professionals in strategies that can effectively prevent the need for restraint or seclusions during moments of escalation. The presentation and interview will look at obstacles within the system as well as how Karen has fought to learn from her students and make change
Special Educator Karen Bures will share how she was able to reduce and eliminate the use of restraint and seclusion in her classroom.
Karen Bures is a special education teacher working with students who may display intense behaviors in Bend, Oregon. Karen started her career working in residential treatment care, transitioned into child welfare through the state, and then took a hiatus to be a stay-at-home parent. Once Karen’s children began school, she moved into the education field primarily to be on the same schedule as her children. Karen soon discovered that she was passionate about helping kids navigate the system. She began as an educational assistant in the behavior program before obtaining her special education licensure.
Karen continues to work to educate and coach other professionals in strategies that can effectively prevent the need for restraint or seclusions during moments of escalation. The presentation and interview will look at obstacles within the system as well as how Karen has fought to learn from her students and make change
Well, hello and welcome. I guess that means it's been another two weeks because we are back here again with ASR Live. My name is Guy Stevens, I'm the founder and executive director of the alliance against seclusion restraint. Really glad you're choosing to spend some time with us this afternoon. We've got a great presentation, a great discussion that's ahead of us today. So really happy that you're taking time out of your day to to come and join us. Those of you that aren't aware of who we are and what we do. As I said, my name is Guy Stevens. I'm the founder and executive director of the alliance against seclusion restraint. The Alliance is an organization that we began about four years ago. In fact, it was four years ago in March of 2019. Time flies quickly, we started the organization. Really, the idea behind the alliance is that we have a mission around educating the public and connecting people together, who are dedicated to changing minds, laws, policies, and practices, so that we can do better for kids, for families and for educators. So we can reduce and eliminate practices like restraint and seclusion, suspension, expulsion, and Corporal punishment. And ultimately, Lee create safer environments for everyone. Any of you that have joined us before, you're probably well aware of how this is going to go today, we have a fantastic guest. Every two weeks, when we come here to do these live events, I say, Hey, I'm really excited, we've got a great guest. And I mean it, we've got great guests actually lined up, I think almost for the entire year, we have so many great people ahead. Today, I'm really excited to have Karen burrows joining us. Karen is a special educator who is very aligned in this work about reducing or eliminating restraint and seclusion. And we're going to hear a bit about Karen's story here in a few minutes. I do want to let you know, as always, these events are being live streamed on Facebook, YouTube and on LinkedIn. And of course, they're available after the fact. So you can go back later and watch it, you'll be able to watch a video, you know, on those platforms. You can also listen as audio podcasts. So we put this out as an audio podcast, which is available on YouTube, excuse me on Spotify on iTunes, any of your podcast favorites that you use. So with all of that, let's go ahead and get to the really exciting part here. I want to introduce to you today our special guest Karen. And Karen Berg is a special education teacher working with students who may display intense behaviors at times in Bend, Oregon, Karen started her career working in residential treatment care, transition into child welfare through the state, and then took a hiatus to be a stay at home parent. Once Karen's children began school, she moved in the education field, primarily to be in the same schedule as her children. And Karen soon discovered that she was passionate about helping kids navigate the system. She began as an educational assistant in a behavior program, before obtaining her own special education, licensure. And Karen has continued to work to educate and coach other professionals and strategies that can really effectively prevent the need for things like restraint, seclusion, during moments of escalation. So Karen's got a presentation today, and we're going to do an interview as well. So we've got a presentation and interview. But it's going to look at the obstacles within the system. And how Karen has fought to learn, fought for her students that may change. And I'm really excited. Karen, it is great to have you here today. I'm really excited to have you here. But first, let me just say welcome. Thank you for having me. Absolutely thrilled to. And you and I of course met oh, gosh, it's been it seems like it's been a while ago, it was probably, gosh, year, nine months, something like that. Yeah.
Karen Bures:A little over a year from the Facebook algorithm.
Guy Stephens:Yeah. Okay, that sounds about right. And you know, you you'd reach out, you're an educator. And, you know, I remember we had a couple of conversations and, and you had been doing some really amazing work within the district, you were there at the time, to help reduce and eliminate practices like restraint and seclusion. In talking to you, I kind of found out you were very aligned with the work that we were doing, you know, that we're doing here at the Alliance, and really somebody that's out there making a positive difference. So I've had in my head for a while that I was gonna at some point gets you to join us for a live event because you know, we have a, we have a fantastic audience here at the alliance. And we have, you know, parents of kids that have been restrained and secluded. We have self advocates who have themselves been restrained, secluded. We have a lot of educators, a lot of administrators paraprofessionals. You know, attorneys, advocates, all sorts of people. But what brings us together is this idea that we can do better. And of course, I'm a huge believer that, you know, if we can do better, we have an obligation to do better. And I think there's a lot of opportunity. So, when I met you and learned about your work. One of the reasons that I wanted to have you on here is that it's so important to me to share The story of people like yourself that are making a positive difference for the kids and the families that you're working with. And doing so, you know, moving away from a lot of the punitive approaches that cause a lot of harm. So I'm really thrilled to have you here today and just want to, again, thank you for being here. Thank you for being you and doing what you're doing. And I know we've got an exciting presentation. Before we get into all of that, because you're really fantastic. And everybody that's watching, please, please give Karen a very warm welcome. Show me so it was a little bit nervous, I said, you were gonna have fun. This is not to be nervous about you're you're here, and you're part of our community and sharing. And we're really grateful to have you here. I do want to just ask those that are watching live right now. If you're watching, and I see a number of people here, already, let us know who you are and where you're from. It's always really interesting. Especially I like sharing with the guests as well. So that they know kind of where people are at and what they're, you know where they're from. And you know, what their interests might be in all of this. So tell us who you are in the chat and maybe where you're from. I always tell people, we tend to have a really, believe it or not, we have a very international audience here. We have people when we do these things from the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. And usually what as I say that one of our friends for one of those places jumps on and I'm like, See, I told you. So anyway, we'll wait and see if people tell us where they're from. But why don't we start out? Karen, before we get to your presentation. You know, I think you wanted to just give us a little bit about your your story and about your background. And when you're ready, you let me know. And I'll bring your your deck up. And I think we had agreed today that during your presentation, I was going to stick around. And then I might ask your questions. And we might take some questions from people that are watching as well. And I will just let you know we're getting people that are jumping in here already. Not not putting added pressure on
Karen Bures:here and really hard. Not I have some team members in here though, so.
Guy Stephens:Okay, great. And here I have from Washington state. We've got from Ben go, Karen, I'm going to think that somebody that knows you. Yeah. Somebody here from Texas. Let's see I'm a co ta working in schools near Mount Hood, Oregon. Lisa from Idaho. Somebody in early childhood in Indianapolis. Oh, we got a good crowd here today. We have somebody here from Angie from Nebraska. Let's see Chantal. There we go. Chantal is one of our volunteers. She's also in New Brunswick, Canada, Salem, Oregon, I have a 12 year old with autism that spent the entire year in seclusion. They're calling it a personal environment. Oh, gosh, I'm sorry to hear that. We have Tracy here from ot from South Dakota, another occupational therapist in New Jersey. And, and you know, I'll say I'll tell you this, Karen, and I don't know what your experience is. I'm a big fan of occupational therapists and social workers. They both tend to be some of the nicest professionals that I work with. And OTS have so much potential to help out and sometimes not fully realized in the schools that they're in from my experience, Michigan, and we've got Sunday here who's part of a fantastic group in Michigan, who's actually working to reduce and eliminate restraint, seclusion in the state of Michigan. And again, somebody else from Benin. Got some friends here. So you're on friends, you've got some other folks here from other places, but looks like a great group. So let me let me give it to you to tell us a little bit about your background. And then when you are ready for me to I will bring up your presentation. And we'll kind of go through that.
Karen Bures:Yeah, well, so you you spoke a little bit about my, my experience, my background, and really my my work with kids with big behavior started in residential treatment. And I was fresh out of college and really had no business working with students with big feelings. Because as a 22 year old, I had no no world experience that made me the best person.
Guy Stephens:Well, well and not not reflect on you here. But one of the things that really always comes into my mind here is that we talk a lot about the brain science about the neuroscience piece of this, and what do we know about brain development that our brains are not fully developed over 25 or 30 years old. And when we're, you know, putting expectations on people that are, you know, sometimes not much older than the students that they're working with, you know, by no fault of their own, it's a really tough position to be in.
Karen Bures:Right. And I think like I got a lot of accolades. I was good at it. But in reflecting back, what I was good at was controlling the environment, but from a compliance lens, versus where I hope to evolve from a real trauma informed lens now and And so I was very competent at making sure the schedule was, you know, tight, and everything was as controlled as I could possibly make it. But when students were humans and had big feelings, that I think that threatened all of our sense of we don't know how to control this situation. And the only training that we received at that time was restraint and seclusion. And so that was that, like, that was the go to intervention. And I don't say that to, you know, brag or, or, like, I don't feel good about that piece of work. But it has led me to, I have experienced doing it. And so I really have come to a place where I can understand the level of trauma that I inflicted on other students, and other kids not Not intentionally, by any means I thought I was doing my job. And my focus has always been the preventative sort of aspect of it. But at that time in my 20s, that was the only skill that I had, when those situations and when those escalations, escalations started. So
Guy Stephens:and that's such a common problem is
Karen Bures:to say it out loud, though, you know, it's back, it's hard to acknowledge that, have you
Guy Stephens:looked back and considered the trauma that it caused for you? Because, you know, I mean, we know that, you know, physically restraining or secluding someone, you know, is something that can be dramatic. I mean, have you ever kind of reconciled that as well about kind of the impact that it had on you? I mean, certainly, you seem and and from what I know about you, you know, you probably felt like, well, gee, this, this doesn't feel right to me, but this is what I'm being told to do. Which happens, I think, to so many, especially young educators that go in a field that you never imagined they might be running into this. But did you ever have you ever reflected on that, you know, kind of the trauma that it may have led to for you?
Karen Bures:Yeah, at this point in my life I have. Because in in my last district, I also participated in initiated seclusion and restraint, but I had a different feeling at on the other side of that, so the escalation happen. A lot of those times I was instructed to restrain a student, and I did so. But were in my 20s, I felt not necessarily happy about it. But I still felt like I'm controlling the situation. I think everybody in this room safe. That is what I'm supposed to do. My job is safety. I didn't have that feeling anymore, I started to have a lot of big feelings myself about it. And it was, my it was, it was during the year where I was actually a paraprofessional, and we had been instructed to initiate a restraint on a student who I had a real soft spot for. And as we were restraining him, I looked down and he was crying, just just crying. And like something significantly shifted in that moment, from thinking, this is an ugly part of the job, but a part of the job, too. I can't wait, I have to, I have to do something different. I have to be better than this. I can't like he's just like a little kid that's crying, doesn't know why he's having big feelings. Looking back, it wasn't I I would not have said that. That was a life threatening situation, that we needed to do that in strange restraint. It was a large situation. But I caused trauma and I, I have held on to that particular story for a very long time, and sort of made it my goal and my mission and my passion to, to change it to change what I could in my little pocket of the world and also to advocate on a larger scale. Because I don't think that educators are are maliciously restraining or secluding there are probably some very abusive people in system. So I recognize that those those people are there.
Guy Stephens:But but but likely the outliers. I mean, I don't think most people go into education because they want to restrain and seclude kids, but when you're taught this and you believe it's the only thing you can be doing people and you know, I mean, not to mention, there's there's kind of a bit of a well, I would say an issue around the fact that we're often so conditioned for compliance, that we do things that don't feel right to us because we've been conditioned to comply. We've been conditioned to say, Okay, well, you know, maybe this doesn't feel right, but this is what I'm being told to do. I'm 20 years old. I'm in my first job. Here's what I told him. And Sunday just brought up a point I just want to share a comment here, because Sunday's can Let me share something that I was thinking as well, as you were saying this Sunday said, I came through the residential system. And I just want to say that I really appreciate you were looking at your own involvement critically, but urged you to be gentle with yourself, that you were doing what you were taught. And when you knew better, you obviously started working to do better, or different. I appreciate your honesty so much and, and Sunday that you put that really well. And, you know, this is something Karen, you may have heard me say before, and I think we probably both share this, you know, I've got this really big belief that, you know, if we know better, we have an obligation to do better, I think about the quote from Maya Angelou, you know, that you do the best you can until you know, better. And when you know, better you do better. But not only did you begin to do better, you began to take it to a higher level, to encourage others to do better. So, let me let me be quiet and just let you continue on with your, your story. But this is tough. And I mean, it takes a lot of courage to, to share what you're sharing here today. And, you know, I know, we're our own hardest critics. And, you know, even as a parent, you know, I look back, I think about the things that I've learned in my journey over over, especially the last, you know, four and a half, five years. And then I look back at my early parenting and think, oh, gosh, I wish I had known then what I know now, I wish Mona della hooks book, you know, Brain Body parenting existed when my first child was born. But again, you know, it really is about, you know, knowing better doing better. And you're such a great example that so anyway, I'll be quiet. But I just wanted to point about, like having having, you know, grace for yourself is really important.
Karen Bures:Well, I appreciate you saying that. And Sunday, I appreciate you saying that, too. I don't think I think I think adults have a really hard time admitting that maybe that they did something wrong. For a multitude of reasons for their own trauma, upbringing for their own shame cycle, fear of repercussion, like there's a lot of complex reasoning that can go into that. But I think the thing that I want to normalize is that I, I am not a perfect educator, I am not a perfect human being. And I have I have participated in the system in a way that I do not feel pride about. And the only thing that I can do is continue to share my story, and be loud when I need to be loud. And just kind of put it out there so that we can normalize growth, right? That's so but that's hard and tricky. And I'm sweating, and I'm blacking out. So I don't even know what words are coming out of my mouth.
Guy Stephens:You're doing a fantastic job. And, you know, I know we're going to move into your your presentation here in a minute. But, you know, I think the other thing, you know, when I first began talking to you, and heard your story about what you were doing, and how much you were trying to push change, and really kind of, you know, what you had learned and you were actually a great example of success and reducing and eliminating restraint, seclusion, where you were working at the time, and, and even receive some some recognition, you know, for that work that you were doing. But we're in systems sometimes that are that are quite difficult. And I'm not going to ask you to go into any detail here. But, you know, I know from from working with you that you were even putting your career in jeopardy because of how strongly you felt about the need to do better for kids. And I mean, I don't say that lightly. I mean, I really mean that, you know, you were really putting the kids who served, you know, above yourself. And, you know, that's a rare thing in today's world. And I just want to recognize that, you know, you know what, you know, again, knowing what I know what, what you were doing, and what you have done to try to influence change. So
Karen Bures:yeah, so. So I have spent a lot of time doing some trainings and I got to be a part of this program that I'm sorry, I truly loved and worked with some also some amazing, amazing educators who are also aligned with this thinking. So I certainly was not working in a vacuum. But that moment with that student happened in this program, and I as a as a paraprofessional, you do not have you have even less power than a teacher in a situation. And so that that can also create a level of complexity about pushing back on the system. But I think I think where I landed was I need to get in there like I need to get my license. I need to get in there. Like I know that I can do better. And we did. We did better. We did really I'm incredibly proud of the work that we did. And I love these humans with my whole heart. And these kids were our our Are kids. And so when I was looking at next steps or how to push this system, I thought, well, I'll prove it. Right, like, I'll prove it before I asked for change, like, I'll prove that it's possible because I think there's a lot of educators, there's a lot of administrators in the system in general, it's like a big barge like it doesn't change very easily or quickly. And so all I thought is I can, I can prove what we can do here. And we did. And we I was asked to speak well, we were asked to speak, but I volunteered to speak to the board about it. And so I presented, how we had been able to reduce our restraint and seclusion so drastically, and got a lot of positive recognition from it. A lot of positive feedback. And so I went into some are feeling pretty empowered around it. And I think that was probably about the time that I stumbled across your group on Facebook, which I always think the Facebook algorithm was really creepy thing, but I it was, it was, it was, I'm so glad that it happened in this situation. And so I started popping on and looking around, and like, there's a lot of people that feel this way. It's not, it's not just a Karen Burris, it's not just our team, like there's a lot of people pushing for this change. And I think that like, that gave me some feeling of empowerment as well, like, I'm not, I'm not on my own in this. And so we came back into the next year. And I requested a formal sort of look at implementing a different crisis prevention plan. So in Oregon, you have to have a crisis prevention program in place. And the one that is used here is one that has restraint attached to it. And so my initial request was, Are there are there programs that don't have restraint attached to it? Because because of everything we've just talked about, right? Like we're training people to restrain children. And there's, there's, there's problematic train training as well, within that, you are preparing people with the sense of like, they're going into war, you know, and at some point, this, this terrible thing is going to happen. And they're going to have to be prepared for it in this way. And so you're setting up so many people to view it through that lens. And so the first thing that I thought was, well, let's change, let's change the training, let's change the lens. And so you were really great with helping me identify some different programs. And I think, I think at first, I thought there was a window, my direct admin has a had a very more old school approach to all of this, and I don't think was open to that change. But I thought that there might be some other people in this situation that could sort of help me push this change. And it felt that way for a minute. And then I think, I think one of the things that I ran into, that a lot of educators run into is if you push too hard on people with power, that can be threatening, and feel threatening. And so I got a lot of a lot of negative pushback, a lot of threats to my career. And ultimately was asked to sign a piece of paper saying I would no longer talk about not restraining children. And that in the same way that that moment happened with that student like something just like, like no, I can't. And it's it's a it's a weird thing to feel like you have to walk away from the kids that you're fighting so hard for in order to protect them and to protect yourself. But that's ultimately the decision that that I came to. When I reflect on it, I think about you know, when they do the airplane training, and they're like you have to put on your mask first. That's what it felt like it felt like I had to put on my mask to save my own career in order to continue to change it. That was a very difficult decision. And I'm a verbal processor. So anyone that's still in here watched me sort of publicly grieve that but it also I think lit a fire in me. And so I am with a different district and they so far I have received a lot of support around So, my philosophy around this, they still implement the same training program. But I feel like it is it has been a safe place for me to at least advocate and talk about this and find other like minded educators who are also. So I'm going to continue to talk about in the hopes of finding more more people that maybe are afraid to speak up or aren't sure what to do instead. And the only training that they really have is restraint, seclusion, and they have, you know, there's a real narrative that it keeps everybody safe. Right, right,
Guy Stephens:right. Well, when we know the opposite is really true, right? We know that the moment you go hands on, you're, you're putting everybody at risk, anything you can do to to prevent the need. And you know, I think I think you and I have similar thoughts here. But But I don't think seclusion is ever appropriate. I think restraint should be exceedingly rare and unusual. I mean, the situations where, you know, it's a life threatening situation, perhaps, you know, but this should not be happening, you know, multiple times a day or multiple times a week, it should be something that's really unusual.
Karen Bures:And I think that's where the training comes in. Because I think I think that people in those moments, feel threatened. Right? Right, that's really about their own dysregulation and their own lack of knowing what to do. And so they, they do feel afraid, I think that that's, they legitimately feel that way. And if you are regulated and trained, you know that that situation was not actually life threatening situation.
Guy Stephens:Right? Right. Well, and that's an important piece of where we need to go with with training in terms of, you know, it's been said many times before, you know, you need a well regulated adult, to help a dysregulated child. And in we need to focus on that we need to focus on helping adults that do have fully developed prefrontal cortex is to stay regulated, even when the situations are difficult. So you have put together a slide presentation about what educators can do. And I'm going to bring it up on screen here. But I was really excited to have you come today and talk about this, because we do have a lot of educators that are part of our community. And you know, as you mentioned, kind of a moment ago. It can be scary. I mean, it can be scary, because systems, pushback, there's retaliation, that can be very real. And sometimes there's just all this uncertainty like where do we even start? So with that, I'm going to bring your presentation up on the screen and allow you to kind of take it away. I'm going to hang out here as we agreed, and I might jump in occasionally with a question. Or if somebody anybody watching, if you have questions, you're welcome. Put those in the chat. We'll we'll try to get to some of those as we go. Depending on how we're looking on timing, we might wait for the end for some of those. But go ahead and feel free to put things in the chat as we go. So Karen, let me let you go ahead and take your your presentation over and I will be quiet until I'm not able to talk.
Karen Bures:All right. Ah, there we go. Okay. All right. So the big question is, if not restraint and seclusion, then what can we do? And so before when I was really reflecting on how to articulate to other professionals and other other educators how to how to explain I'm not, I'm not a trainer by any means. So this is going to be really bumpy and probably disjointed. I'm going to do my best. But I think as much as I can outline some real specific interventions, what it really comes down to, is that it's, it's you, and it's the relationship that you have with your students. And we've all seen a lot of tiktoks, we all hear from educators who are overwhelmed and at capacity, kind of roll their eyes at this thought, right, that it's not that simple. And for me, it really is. Because I don't I don't think that kids in general, but specifically students with large behaviors, I don't think that they are rule followers, right? There's a lot of people in the world that are rule followers. But there's a lot of us that and I say us, I'm not a rule follower that are not. And I think that they follow people not rules. And so really, you're the intervention, you're the magic, you're the you're the connection. And so that is underlying everything that I'm going to go through next. The environment, I realized, I also have another friend Annie, I don't think she's in here, but I've learned a lot from her as well. Talking about the environment and how important the environment is. I think that there is a lot of pressure for teachers to have lots of anchor charts and lots of pictures and lots of decorations and all with good intentions, but I think that we Need to be a little bit more thoughtful and planful around what that environment looks like. A lot of the students that we work with have sensory needs. And so looking around at your space, this is an area that you get to control. One of my other teammates, when I was really struggling through all of this, told me just shut the door, Karen and do your thing. And it's that that is what I want to, to pay it forward to somebody else. Look around your room, make it the safe spot where you have considered all of the sensory sensory needs, and then close the door and do your thing. So there's auditory obstacles. That's not the right word. But to keep in mind, is it too loud? Is it too quiet? Is there music? Is there a lot of in and out of the classroom that makes a lot of extra noise going around? Those are all things to consider when you're like making your schedule and looking at transitions. The lighting is obviously huge. Do you have too much clutter on the walls? My very first year as a teacher, I put up every every learning objective, every everything that we were learning, I put on an anchor chart on the wall on a bulletin board. And nobody, they aren't looking at those, you know that that is that's an optics thing. And so I did get the opportunity to revamp our classroom. And I just took a lot of time to think about like what is necessary to put on the wall. And is it on isn't in a space and put up in a way that is accessible for any of my students versus just looks good for the admin if they come in into the room. Tactile consideration considerations of fidgets I know, specifically, a lot of gen ed teachers are very nervous about fidgets. But they can be beautiful tools, they can become toys. But that's where that's where the support and the teaching and the coaching comes in. Because I think what, I'm gonna go back to this a lot, but one of the first years in my teaching, I worked, I worked insanely hard to get these students to transition back and forth into the hallway as quietly as I could possibly get them. And I was sitting in a grocery store one day and I was looking around at people looking at their phones like talking to their partner or whoever they were there with. And and I had this realization that I was not creating a, a warm, inviting environment by demanding that compliance. And so introducing all of those like fidget tools, when they're waiting for something versus just hoping that they sit there and calmly and quietly wait for the 10 minutes, you know, is really an unrealistic expectation. Chewing necklaces space, you know, are you too close? Are you too far away? Like all of those things you really have to take into consideration on a moment by moment basis? And then of course movement? Do you have a Break space in your classroom? I feel like every single gen ed classroom should have a designated area that is practiced and accessible to everybody not just a student that may struggle more than than another with big behaviors, but to everybody so that we normalize, we're taking care of our feelings, and this is a safe spot in order to do that. Are we building in movement into our learning? Are we taking brain breaks, Are we our Go noodles is one of our favorite Jack Hartman big fan. But these are like little things that can easily easy, easily be implemented into the gen ed, curriculum and classroom to I do think that our teachers are really overwhelmed right now. And so when you talk about some of these things, that feels like one thing too many. And so I want to say that that I'm I'm suggesting all of these things and can acknowledge that there are also larger systemic things that need to change.
Guy Stephens:I just want to jump in real quick and say that I love that you're talking about all of this in context of all children of general ed of all children, because we don't build inclusive settings if we're segregating and only building things in certain environments. And the fact is, there's a lot of kids that are in general education settings that may not even have have recognized difficulties or disabilities that are going to benefit from these things. And I think that's such an important message is that so many of these things are really going to benefit all reminds me of the quote, and I don't remember, I don't know who to credit it to. So I'll just kind of share it. But somebody had said at one point, you know, if you if you design a classroom, you know, around the needs of autistic children, alternative children who have benefit, right, you know, and they were just kind of making the point that, you know, the things that makes up inaccessible to one child is making it accessible to all that the whole idea of like, Universal Design for Learning, like, what what do we do? Anyway? I just, I just wanted to touch on that point. It's I love that I love you're talking about, you know, that setting and as well?
Karen Bures:Well, I'm when we're looking at things like disruptive learning, there's a lot, you know, there's a lot of pushback right now on the system. And it is it is valid, and it is necessary. And when, when we are there is a way to support all of the students in your classroom, who may not be experiencing the large behaviors that another student, but in a way that you can build classroom culture around support of that student learning those skills, versus I keep hearing a lot of like, they're they're causing trauma to other students. And what about the other students and it's like, there, there's a way to do both, there's a way to keep everybody safe. And there's a way to openly talk about everybody has struggles, everyone, amen. Everybody has mental health, everybody has big feelings, like can we like everybody has that. And just because some people can mask better than others, and control can can control it better than others doesn't mean that it won't benefit somebody else to have those.
Guy Stephens:And, of course, there's also kids who, you know, there are kids that become overwhelmed and have big behaviors, but there are kids that become overwhelmed and shut down, they're become overwhelmed. And you know, they go into more of a freeze kind of response. And again, these things are helping, because those those children are often not seen or recognized for the difficulty that they're having. And again, when you create the culture around that, you're gonna benefit everybody. Well, I love that you're talking about that. That's fantastic.
Karen Bures:It's very weird that I can't see
Guy Stephens:somebody's voice somewhere,
Karen Bures:like oz behind the curtain. Um, the next one is IEP accommodations. And for everybody in the special education world. We all know what those are. But I think that I don't think that they're always implemented with fidelity, I'm probably going to say some unpopular things in this presentation. And that is not to support my fellow not to not show support to my fellow educators and not to acknowledge, like I said, some of the some of the issues in the education system, because believe me, I also get very loud about those. But when we, when we are looking at what support a student needs, if if all I can see is this, the schedule that you have printed out that the adult is following them around with, you are not providing an IEP accommodations, and there's a lot of them that will help those students. And so I think I just wanted to say that out loud that I think sometimes, because we have large caseload, which is one of those systemic problems. And because we have dysregulated adults right now, we don't necessarily at all times have thoughtful planning going into place. And so you should have a real clear knowing of your students needs and what accommodations have been put into place that have shown to be successful. So because we because I always have been in this sort of specialized environment, it has had some advantages with being able to really dig in there and figure out a plan that is helps support that student. But if they transition back into an environment where all they're doing is carrying around their visual schedule all day, we're not it's all of those behaviors are going to start to show up again, right, because they're not being appropriately supported. So I think I just wanted to say those words out loud, as unpopular as they may be, that we really need to be putting forth thoughtful planning, not just reactive planning
Guy Stephens:and execution, right because, you know, one of the things that you know, you know, one of the things that that we see kind of on our end of things is that and I'll share with you my my opinion on this, but when I see a kid that's that's been restrained or secluded, what I often really see As a kid whose needs have not been appropriately met. And sometimes those needs are outlined in an IEP, but they're not being followed. Other times, they just really haven't been appropriately outlined. And I would say that anytime that something like this were to happen, of course, I don't believe that seclusion should ever happen. I think we're strange would be really very unusual. But I mean, something like that happens, you need to figure out like, what went wrong? And what do we need to adjust? Because I do believe that, with the exception of a real outlier, that, you know, for the most part that, you know, if you really understand a child's needs, and are meeting those needs, that so many big behaviors can be avoided. Would you agree with that?
Karen Bures:Yeah, absolutely. I will get back. I'll get to that a little bit later in the presentation. But I do think that reflection is is the key to all of it. Even if it's even if the escalation doesn't result in a restraint or seclusion, I think that our team in particular did a very good job of like, backup big, what did we miss? Did we not implement something? Is there? You know, like, did we did we forget to implement it? Or is it not outlined, and it hasn't been found yet? And we need to do some creative thinking and problem solving together to figure out what support could? Or what accommodation could support that student? So yes, I absolutely agree with that. Yeah. Which brings me to visual supports. I am a huge proponent of visual supports. And like I said, I've referred to the schedule, which, you know, I obviously have an example of my own type of schedule that I use. But it is it is it is a working document. So it is it's not something that's in a in a bag that they're carrying around with. And then if something big happens, like well look at where you're at with the schedule, it's a real collaborative process. This is a real simplified version of a schedule. So we'll do a lot of a lot of looking at, you know, where can we strategically put a built in break in order to support the student and that can be done collaboratively collaboratively with the student or just with the team. But I think that the schedule is and how we interact with it is is also really important, we can get very focused on this is what time we have to be here. And that is, we can't do some real good work, because this is what it says on the schedule. So I think schedules can be kind of tricky. The timer is a pretty regular thing that special education teachers use. But I have been in multiple general education classrooms where there's not a time or there's a clock. But if you don't know how to how to read a clock, then that's not particularly helpful to you. And so part of the skill building note that we do is, you know, it's important to know, if you hate something, it is helpful to know I only have three minutes left of that thing that I hate, or I'm really looking forward to getting into my preferred play break. And I that is happening in five minutes. And so I can use positive positive self talk to get there. And so I put that on the screen, just that it's something that I would that I hope that gets used more and more and more and in the gen ed setting. And that is a really easy thing that helps. Also, it's one of those things that helps all students, right. So it's not just for Johnny that he needs a timer like all students benefit from having a visual sort of support there. And then all of all of my students have these brake cards. So we make these brake cards, I am not responsible for the design. You have, I was very, very lucky to work with an incredible group of skilled people. And I think we all brought different things to the table. And so live and Brendel on our team, where I'm trying to shout all of them to I love them. were largely responsible for making our visuals and this is our brake card. When we we use this a lot in practicing before we have moments of escalation so that we are normalizing checking in with ourselves and determining what we might need in a moment. And that that is a really difficult skill. It's difficult for adults, it's difficult. It's difficult, right? So I know it's it's a big skill that we're working on here. But sometimes in those moments And we when our lid is flipped, we, we are not hearing words anymore. And so providing the the tools that the student has identified as this is a tool that helps me having a visual in that moment, I have found to be a really effective way of de escalating. De escalating that situation. I can't see you so I don't know, I thought you're gonna see something.
Guy Stephens:Well, yeah, I will say something real quick while you're. And that was just, you know, I love again, the emphasis you're making on about, you know, doing things for all children. And one of the things that went through my mind is just how, when we normalize these things, we do stigmatize them as well. It's not just that Johnny needs a special, it's it, you know, all kids can benefit from this. And that is so important. So you know that you're reading my thought, even though Yeah, it's in my face. So what I was thinking, so I'll let you keep going. Okay.
Karen Bures:And then the next one that I that I have is embedded routines, and scripts. So these are some of the scripts that I use in our team use. And I won't necessarily go into each of them. If anybody has a specific question around it, I can answer it. But what I would say is that this is also something that is underutilized. There's a lot of people who might do like one lesson on what this means and then never speak about it again. And that's just that's not how that's not how most people learn. And so having those routines and those prompts, and those those sayings that they hear over and over and over again, really helped them internalize that. And I think people do not put the level of focus that they that they could on, on the scripts and the routine. And if we were all speaking the same language, right? Like, like, if I'm, if I'm using words like was that an unexpected or unexpected way to tell me that you were angry, and then Johnny goes to his gen ed classroom, and his teacher is like, Was that an expected or unexpected way to tell me that you were angry, then we start to see that cross setting application versus just, you know, in their little program, they've learned all these great skills, and then we're sort of throwing them into the deep end of the of the pool where nobody is using that, that terminology, or those or those scripts or language, and they, they, you know, can get forgotten. And so that is, that is a thing that would also like, it's so easy to do. It's so easy, and it feels, it feels silly, sometimes, like all I'll be at home, and I'll say things like that fills my bucket. And you know, my teenager will kind of roll his eyes at me. But it is incredibly effective to have all of the people in your life using these terms that you understand. And so I and that goes, the same thing goes for the routine, right? Like I think general education teachers do an excellent job the first week or two of school of practicing those routines. And then generally, like after a break, they'll practice the routines. But imagine if you if you make that prompt every single time if you make the transition prompt before the transition, how many students like I said, maybe masking and in can follow it where Johnny might be like, I don't know what I do. I don't know what's happening. He might he looks like the only one that needs that support. But every every it just it would help so many students and Johnny before God gets some really I don't know why I chose it named Johnny, and anyone named Johnny. Before before that escalation happens. These are really really simple things to play said but I think maybe sometimes they're like so simple that it gets overlooked is like not an effective intervention when it's incredibly effective.
Guy Stephens:You know, Karen in a previous life, I did a lot of work around digital media, web, all of these things. And of course, we talked a lot about accessibility. And people often think about accessibility as making things accessible to people with disabilities, but they often think in a very linear way, they often think it's, you know, it's the curb cut that makes a wheelchair have access. What people often don't realize is that accessibility is really more than that. It's really about making things available to more people in more situations. And so much of this is about accessibility, right? It's about, you know, and sometimes we don't even realize the unintended positive consequence of, of making something more accessible. Because we don't recognize that it's the person we don't know, that really benefits that and that's what's really beautiful about what you're talking about is that, you know, this is really about making things more accessible to all students, and really even doing a better job supporting kids that we might not even know need some of these additional supports. So anyway, I figured I would just chime in with that and say, well,
Karen Bures:if we're talking about inclusion, right, inclusion, inclusion is not is not Johnny's in the classroom. Right. He has his own individual little plan that somebody is talking to him about one on one in the corner. That's not inclusion, right. Like inclusion is really like embedding all of this into your whole entire system. Yep. Knowing that Johnny needs it at a higher level, maybe, but that he's not, he's not pointed out for that need. He's not alienated for that need.
Guy Stephens:Yeah, great, great points, you're, you're generating some ideas that are popping through my head right now. So I have more exciting things to propose to you later.
Karen Bures:I don't know what that means. But okay. All right. And then specially designed instruction is basically what I've been talking about this whole time, right? I think that, in our world, people spend a lot of time focused on how to get these kids to access their education. And that is extremely important. But we can't access our education if we are not regulated. And if we do not feel safe, and we do not feel valued, and, and all of the things that we as adults feel, right. Like I ultimately had to had to leave my dream job because I didn't feel valued or safe. So if you, if you can apply that to children, they feel all of those same, same things. And so when we're looking at specially designed instruction, we're looking at real, targeted and purposeful and meaningful instruction around some of these soft skills. Not just how are we teaching math, but how are we teaching? How to Share? How are we teaching? All those all of those those? How are we teaching how to take accountability, which is not the same thing as like you have to grovel and apologize or whatnot. But how do we how do we reflect on our, our part in a situation? How do we how do we go to recess? You know, like, I think there's a lot of adults that just think recess is like the best time on Earth, it's Disneyland we're sending them out to, and it is a cutthroat environment, that if you don't have some support, and you haven't taught some of these real life skills on that playground, you're also setting kids up for for, for those moments that they they are not prepared to know how to handle and so I think that when we're looking at at SDI, we also need to apply that to some of these like soft, social emotional skills, not just, you know, our academics. And so, I have a couple examples of boom cards. It's called Boom learning. And it is just a platform. And it's a little bit like TPT, but in the virtual world. And so this, this is my store, and I'm not promoting my store. But I do want to just point, I wanted to use it as an example of some things that fall into the SDI category that I think get overlooked a lot. So when we're when we're talking about, you know, how to handle making a mistake, that's not something that you might feel like needs, you know, consistent lessons around, but it is, it is for a lot of kids, not just Johnny and so really making sure that we are we are implementing specially designed instruction, not just for academics, but also for the behavioral, social emotional learning support. So those are just some examples.
Guy Stephens:I know you said you weren't promoting your store but you've got this and somebody's gonna think hey, is there a link to this? Do you Yeah, we'll send the link but if you can just when when we get wrapped up if you can send Yeah,
Karen Bures:absolutely. I struggled with like putting my link on there on the thing. And then I thought no, like my point is really just to point out all
Guy Stephens:of her Sure, sure. But but but I'm sure that there's probably somebody watching like, Oh, I'd like to learn more about this. So yeah.
Karen Bures:This is one of those as examples of STI, I call it there I've, I've coined it something new. But our team has always, there's a lot of focus on what happens after some, some big feelings. And that that can range from like, I just had some big feelings and through a thing and took a break, or it could be a big escalation. But the the after part of that is extremely important. And I think that when, when I when I referenced just like, the need to stay on schedule, and the need to keep going, this is one of the SDI moments that really gets overlooked in in helping learn helping them learn some problem solving skills, right, so we use collaborative, collaborative problem solving. So what got hard, and then, and then Joe scene of how we can start to practice how to solve our problems. Cleaning up any mess that we make, I know that everyone has seen the, you know, the photos of the torn apart classroom, which I have some big feelings about anybody posted anything like that. But we've all seen it. And and then my thought is always like, did you take that moment to help repair? It's not about cleaning up the mess because you're in trouble. And there's a punishment, but it's it's sort of a natural consequence. Right? Have we made a mess, and we need to clean it up, and I'm going to help you and I'm going to be right here and it's safe to do that. But, but that's a life skill for us to learn. We I use buckets a lot. I don't I shy away from I have I have used apologies and done a lot of lessons around apologies. But it can, it can easily be misused. As some sort of like you have to you will have to go apologize for the thing that you did. And so I've shied away from that language and more into, you know, our, our feelings are always valid, right? It is okay that you got really, really angry. But we may have dipped some buckets, which is a metaphor for our hearts, right? We're all interconnected. So how we relate and respond to each other is all connected? And so how can how can we make the situation feel a little bit better? How can we fill up everybody's bucket, right? What's our plan for the next time this happens? Because it's probably going to happen again, you know, there's going to be unexpected moments that happen. And your teacher is going to make a mistake, or you're going to make a mistake, and how are we going to try and plan for that for the next time? And then do we need to practice I'm a big proponent of practicing when we're regulated. And so do we need to practice that plan so that we have a little bit of muscle memory that starts and that is not an immediate, immediate change? Like you are not going to practice what to do the next time and then the next time everything's just gonna, you know, be be perfect. It is it is. It's small steps, but the practice is really important. And then do we do we need to make anything up? Or is that not necessary? We can drop it for today? Or was it a wasn't an escape around math, and maybe we need to do some lower demand math, but we need to rewrite that escape plan for them. So I think this is just this is a really big one and an extremely effective and change. And something that not a lot of people do because of the schedule.
Guy Stephens:Hey, Karen, I've got to ask you a question. So the filling the buckets? Is that in any way related to her based on that the book? So I have to tell you that that was a book that we had when my kids were young. And I remember reading them so many times. So when you start talking about buckets, the back of my head, and I just went out and Googled it on Amazon and I remember that book. And you know, I haven't read it in probably, you know, gosh, 10 however many years but yeah, no, that's great. Well, and
Karen Bures:it's my favorite class, when when we talk about like classroom management, I think a lot of times those can be really negative. And a lot of you know, I'll move your clip if you do this. Right. Yeah. And so if you use buckets, right, it gives it gives you an opportunity to point out acknowledge and celebrate every single kind moment that's happened like every single positive thing and it doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's if you feel like that's just a given that somebody should do that, right. We acknowledge all of the things and we actually like put a little like physical heart into their bucket so they can sort of see Yeah, so it's my
Guy Stephens:well that book has a very fond memories from Yeah, I really put it in years. But I don't think of back. And I do have one question here that just popped up. It's very relevant to what you're talking about now. So I'm gonna bring it up. Veronica says, How long after calm down? Should the repair routine be practiced?
Karen Bures:There's not a specific answer for that. Sometimes you can run out of time in a day, right? And then we're just going to start the next day. But we're going to start with the repair routine the next day. So it's okay that we didn't get to it in the heat of the moment. But, but we're going to come, we're going to circle back to it, because that's how important this piece is. And so it kind of depends on where they're at. Right? Like, usually, if you have, if you have gotten full regulation, you can usually do it, you probably got regulation, but you got to you do have to make sure that you're in full regulation, because if they start to escalate the you know, that they weren't quite ready for that stuff.
Guy Stephens:Yeah, you know, yeah, I was thinking that, and I think that's really the answer, right, is that, you know, you can't get to repair until you've reached regulation, right. And, you know, I mean, and it's all about getting to the the cortex, right? The thinking part of our brain, which you kind of use the analogy earlier about flipping our lids. And, you know, when we become dysregulated, we flip our lid, our prefrontal cortex, that thinking decision making part of our brain is offline. So when kids are dysregulated, they're not really at a point where they're ready to do something like repair. So that's great. I do want to just bring up one other comment here. And this is just a comment. But just so that, you know that when I said we have friends from New Zealand that jump on, one of our friends from New Zealand is on and we got a greetings from the future because they are a day ahead of us, oh, Friday morning in New Zealand. And this is from a good friend and ally, Linda, who is amazing and has done some amazing work in New Zealand. But Linda says that I look forward to watching the recording of this presentation later today. So truly know that we are we've got Canada and New Zealand, maybe some other countries on here as well. But let me let me let you continue on.
Karen Bures:Sorry, my little thing is very sensitive, okay? When we're looking at escalations, this is a big one. Staff switching, right. So this when I was thinking about like preventative and proactive, there are a lot of moments along the way that you have an opportunity to switch out of that of that situation, you might not be the person that is the you are no longer effective, whether that whether that student is sort of targeted on you as the problem, whether you are in fact the problem meaning intentionally or not intentionally, right, you might be the problem. switching out with with a preferred staff, there's there's a real, I think this is a real hard part for educators because they get very, their ego gets involved. And that's going to be an unpopular thing that I'm saying out loud. And so I'm very sorry if that made anybody uncomfortable. But your your ego can get involved, and it happens to the best of us. And we want to make sure that we follow through we are the person that set the expectation, and then this big thing happened. And so we need to see it through. And no, we don't, you know, no, we don't. And this is probably the biggest area of growth for myself. Because I was somebody that said things like that I felt I felt very much like Nope, they're just trying to get away from me. And it is not a me problem. So I'm going to see this through. And it has taken a lot of reflection and a lot of trust in the people around you that maybe I am the problem. Maybe it was the problem. Maybe I did forget a prompt. Or maybe I was harsher than I meant to sound. Or maybe I am grumpy and tired and a little bit more reactive because I'm also a human being. It's not about perfection, but it is about acknowledging your own imperfections, and getting someone in who can help. And if our if our goal is aligned with wanting to help and support the student in reregulating, then it doesn't matter if it if you're the person that does it, or if they have another safe person that does it right. And we all connect in different ways. So I love all of my students. And there are some of them that think I am the the best thing ever, ever to have walked the earth. And then there are students that think we live is the best person and the best human and me is the best person and Lucia. It doesn't have to be you at all times. If you have a shared goal of regulation, then doesn't matter if I do it a little bit differently than me does it as we're going in the same direction, and we have the same goal, but that, that takes a lot of work on setting your ego aside. And I hear a lot of people say things like, well, it's not it's not about me, but like, it's really, really, it's really hard. Because we do take it personally, because we do care about these kids. And we do care. We're all human. Right? Like, I think that I'm helping you and you're asking for someone else. And that hurts my feelings. But But it's my job to acknowledge my feelings are hurt, because I wanted to be the person to help you because I love you. And I'm not what you need right now you need somebody else. So I'm going to get who you need in order to help you. Because if that's really my goal, then it doesn't matter if it's me. And that that is a universal thing that I've gotten really loud about. I've gotten a lot of pushback, it's very difficult for adults, I think, to wrap their wrap their minds around that concept. But
Guy Stephens:you're right. I mean, I can't tell you, Karen, how many times we've seen kids that were being restrained, secluded, you know that we're having a lot of difficulty in a given classroom, that move to a different setting. And the biggest difference was the adults. Yeah, yet the child suddenly, miraculously is doing so much better. And it's about safety. Right? You know, if a kid doesn't feel safe, if you know, and it comes down to the safety of the educator as well, I'm not at all suggesting that that's, that's critical. I mean, if a teacher doesn't feel safe, they can't teach if a kid doesn't feel safe, they can't learn. But sometimes it is that and you know, you you hate to feel that way. But you know, I mean, and let's face it, we don't all get along with all people. Right. Right. And by no fault of our own, I mean, it may be I mean, you may remind a child of someone that traumatize them, right? That's not something you've done, but it takes a lot. And, you know, you talked about it being uncomfortable. And I think, you know, I think back to an event that I was at, and somebody you know, kind of brought up something about, you know, are you uncomfortable or unsafe? Nobody should feel unsafe in these discussions, but you might feel uncomfortable. But that uncomfortable space is where we learn, and it's where we grow. And it's really critical, right? Absolutely. So I do want to make you aware of the time we're, because I made your promise that we wouldn't go long, but we're headed in that direction. But But to me, that's a good thing. Like I told you, I told you, this will be fun. So I don't want to rush you, I want you to get through your material. But I do would like to allow a little bit of time for questions.
Karen Bures:Yeah, I'll go through the next ones pretty quick. Okay, sounds good. There's only a couple more reflection, which we've obviously talked a lot about. But it's just a really important piece. And so I wanted to make sure. I wasn't sure. I'm not a public speaker by any means. So I wasn't sure if I was going to forget to say some really important things. And so I was trying to make a visual for myself.
Guy Stephens:put a note on it. I've got plans for you about public speaking Oh, God.
Karen Bures:But the reflection piece, right, like, Did I did I make a mistake? Have we missed something? What did we miss work? Where can we where can we be flexible. And that is not me being a horrible human, that is me learning and growing and getting and that I hope that I continue to get better, like I hope, I hope five years from now I look back and think, why did I do that? Like why did I think that that was the best way to do that. I think is is just is a real important part of of individual growth. And so I just want to, I just think that we should talk about it, we should say all of the hard things out loud. And we should acknowledge when we've made a mistake, and we should just say all the things out loud, so we can just continue to grow together. For the sake of kids.
Guy Stephens:Absolutely. Cheesy. No, no, not at all. I think it's important, a critical part of this process is reflecting kind of self reflection, but but as well reflection on the system, you know, like, where's the system not working? And what can we do about it? And it's really critical if you don't look at these things as being iterative, right? You know, I mean, it's about learning, it's about doing better. And you've got to take that time for reflection.
Karen Bures:Well, and I think in in these large systems, right in the education system, in the in the health system in the police system, there is a sense of like, don't, don't say the negative thing, right? Like if you are a loyal member, you will not critique it. And I think it's I think it's the opposite. I think if you care about something enough, you have to critique it. You have to constantly be questioning and learning and growing, otherwise you maybe you don't care enough. So me pushing back on something is not indicative of I don't care, I'm disloyal. It's actually the opposite. Like I care very much and I love so much about it and it can be better.
Guy Stephens:So I need to figure out how to get you a disrupter shirt. One of the conferences that I attended last August services less summer was the trauma informed Educators Network Conference. And Matthew Patel, who runs that group, has long talked about kind of the need for disruptors and people being disruptors. And I don't have one on now. But you know, I have a couple of them that are unapologetic disruptors. We need people to disrupt the systems, and that's what you're doing.
Karen Bures:Yeah, I'm Yeah, I don't know that I'm unapologetic. I also have my own stuff. So I there's a lot of weird guilt and shame.
Guy Stephens:But you shouldn't be sorry about this. You know, I know that you make a lot of effort to, to be mindful of where people are. And I think that's important. I think it's important to, you know, I mean, we're not here to judge people. But we're here to say, hey, you know, in your case, like, you know, you learned to do better, you did better, you know, how can we help other people get there? And I don't think you should be apologetic about trying to help people move in the right direction, I guess, is what I would say.
Karen Bures:Well, thank you. I also don't know how to accept compliments. So that's I'm gonna make this as awkward as possible. And then the fine, I think it's the final slide. Yeah, the final one is just about data, and the importance of data and collecting it. So that you can think about what needs to change and then put that into action. I think, like I said, when, when I was looking to push back on my own little system, my first thought was, I have to, I have to see if it can work, I have to see if I can do it, I have to see if it's possible. And you can only do that by collecting the data. And then looking back, I'm like, yeah, it's possible. And so now we have to start having some conversations. So I think, you know, in our program, like we start data collection from day one, and I think it's incredibly important, I think it's important to look at, you know, there's a lot of of, of good, I'm going to try to say this, not terribly, but I think there's a lot of good intention around providing equity in these systems. But if we're talking about equity, and then you're looking at the data, and you can see that restraint and seclusion disproportionately affect students of color, and students with disability, are you implementing equitable programming, right. So I just wanted to throw that like, take, take the data, look at it, analyze it, make the changes that you need to. And that is the end of the
Guy Stephens:so so what I'm going to do is I'm going to take your screen off here, you can actually shut your your presentation down, don't shut your browser down and go back to the tab where we were, and you'll be able to see me again, I'm still here, and I haven't left. There you go. Do you have a couple minutes for a few questions. Okay, so I want to just encourage people that are watching now, if you have any questions, put them in the chat, and we'll we will address a few questions here. And we're going a little bit long. But as long as you don't mind going a few more minutes, we'll go a couple more minutes. You know, I just want to start off and I know you said, you know you might not take compliments well, but I'm gonna give you one anyway, Karen, you're an amazing human. And I really appreciate you know, what you're doing and the work that you're doing to, to really, I think make a difference for all kids. And I want to do anything and collaborate with you and, and take you know what you've learned to others and make a difference. You know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of need out there. And you know, we need more, more people like you and so I'm not gonna I won't make you respond to that. No, you're an amazing human doing great. So let me get through a couple of questions that have popped up already. So one of the questions that came was, Oops, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to get that one. I got the wrong star here. Let me see if I can find it again. Oh, here it is. So there was a question about CPS. And I don't know if you have experience using CPS with non nonspeaking kids that might be explosive. We're actually and I put it in the chat. We're actually doing a event I think it's in let's see, when is that? Oh, it's not till August. So it's a little a little bit forward. But to amazing folks that I know that our OTS speech language pathologist are doing a session actually on reducing seclusion restraint in autistic students using CPS in nonspeaking children so we actually have a program coming up on that. But do you have any experience using CPS with non speaking,
Karen Bures:I don't have a lot of experience with nonverbal children. And I'm not a CPS, like trainer expert, by any means. But what I would say is that we do a lot of we have lower verbal students that we will do visual or Yeah, like visual communication. And so I think it depends if it's if it's a processing obstacle or verbal communication obstacle, obviously, if they if they can't process the question, then I'm asking me giving a thumbs up or thumbs down doesn't help.
Guy Stephens:Well, I know that lives in the balance has what they call the five finger method, which is kind of a way of, of, you know, for a non speaking child that might be able to communicate, you know, what they're what they're feeling. And, in fact, I think lives and balance, put something on their Facebook page just yesterday, because I think I saw that recently. But Marian, I also encourage you to reach out to lives in the balance, and they've got an amazing staff who can help you with that. But, you know, I know, it's not for several months now. And that's not gonna be helpful to you. But we do have that up on the agenda in terms of talking about that. And I'm really excited about that presentation. Another question here, also, from Marian was, how can we help teachers understand this? And I don't know exactly where that question came, but I'm gonna stick it in the bigger context. So you know, how can others so you know, you're on your own mission of sharing this information, but somebody that's listening to your presentation and agrees with the things that you're saying? What is your recommendation for how to share that with other educators?
Karen Bures:I don't know if I have a good answer to that. That is a that it's a tricky, it's a tricky situation. If you if you know, collaborative problem solving, I would first encourage you to learn that method, because I think you can use that with adults as well. So with other professionals, I think people in general need need and want to feel validated. And so I think, listening to the concerns of the teacher and validating that that's a real experience that they're having. It's like this the same as work with kids, right? Like, if you can create a safe space to have open dialogue, then you've created a window that may be you can give some some helpful information versus going and telling someone, this is what you need to do.
Guy Stephens:Right. Right. Right. Yeah, one of the things that I've done in the past and recommend it for others is that if you find something that works for you, and you know, I'm an advocate for things like collaborative problem, solve collaborative proactive solutions, Montella hooks, work and beyond behaviors, share a book, you know, share a book with a teacher, or say, hey, you know, this, something's worked really well. And I don't know if you've seen this before, but it might be helpful. You know, and of course, some people are more receptive than than others. But if you can form a good relationship, and relational safety is important everywhere, right? So where we can avoid having something get adversarial, if we can share with them something that we found or, you know, one of the other things I'd recommend Marianne is, share this presentation, right? Share this with, you know, that's always our goal here. Our goal is if you're watching, if you think this would be useful to another parent or another educator, share this, you know, share it with them and let them kind of see.
Karen Bures:Efficient, Chantelle, I'm sorry, if I said your name. That Ross green stressed the importance of the AAC device. I don't know why do you think?
Guy Stephens:That's a great idea? Yeah. And in fact, you know, we're huge believers in, in really kind of the need for providing communication. And oftentimes, there are things that happen in school systems where kids aren't encouraged to explore alternative augmentative communication modalities. But it can make such a big difference we actually interviewed last time, Jordan Zimmerman, who the film, this is not about me, kind of chronicled her experience in education as a non speaking autistic. And, you know, basically, you know, Jordan was in high school. He had a lot of behaviors. She was restrained and secluded had a lot of behaviors through elementary school, middle school, was being tasked things that were well below her mental ability, well into high school had low expectations, eventually had a C, and a C device introduced. And it opened this whole world of possibility and communications and Jordan went on to college, got a undergrad degree, got a master's degree in education, I believe, has done some really amazing work. But, you know, sometimes we see systems that are dissuading people away, you know, away from a C When communication is a need, it's a right. And we've got to work towards that, certainly to support people. Chantelle, it also just mentioned here, and I just want to share with you, thank you for being brave enough to share your story. So honestly, and to show others that they can do better. And I absolutely agree with that as well. So with all that, we've, we've been sharing some of the links here, and I know people that asked about your slide deck as well. And we've told them to reach out to us and we can provide that. As long as you're okay with us doing that. Great. So at this point, you know, we've gone a little bit over and which I don't mind, but I also know that you actually have an IEP meeting coming up, so you've got more work to do. But again, I want to thank you tremendously for you know, one. I mean, you know, how do you think somebody's for being who they are, but but thank you for being who you are. Thank you for what you've been doing. You know, I know you're making a difference for kids and families, and you know, you're going to be somebody special and a lot of kids stories about, and a lot of these kids could have ended up with very different outcomes. So the things that you're doing this, the journey that you've been on, is really making a difference. And I want to thank you for sharing it with our audience here today. And just thank you for all that you're doing to bring about positive change.
Karen Bures:Can I give one last shout out to my team,
Guy Stephens:you can give a shout out to whoever you can get. Families, whoever
Karen Bures:they are Live me Brett brindle, Zach, Alex, all of you. I love you live.
Guy Stephens:Thanks for standing by me. That's fantastic. And you know, now that you've named them, I know who they are. And I might be breaking them down too. Because we need more stories like this. We need to share, you know, what people are doing and the success that they're having. It's so, so important. So again, I just want to thank you for being here with us today. Thank you for sharing your story. You know, and again, I've got more ideas for more things we can do. You have any other final words you want to share with us before we know, this wasn't so bad was it
Karen Bures:I'm also really bad at saying goodbye. So I'm going to make this awkward.
Guy Stephens:I'm going to ask you to stick around. We're gonna say goodbye to our audience here. But you can stick around for a second so we can drag out the the other goodbye. Thank you, Karen again, and everybody that joined us. You know, we'll be here again in two weeks for another program. And we look forward to seeing you then. And thank you for spending some time with us today. And with that, I'm going to wrap this up and I'll see you on the other side of this Karen. Thanks