AASR Live
A podcast from the Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint
AASR Live
A discussion with Mr. Chazz Mr. Chazz about how we can see, guide, and trust children
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A discussion with Mr. Chazz Mr. Chazz about how we can see, guide, and trust children
Chazz Lewis' mission is to help adults truly see, guide, and trust children. He is pushing the needle a little closer toward world peace with his approach. He is an Educational Specialist, Parent Coach, Conscious Discipline Practitioner, and Content Creator. He goes by, “Mr.Chazz” and he even has a song to prove it
Well hello and welcome back. I'm Guy statements the founder and executive director of the alliance against seclusion restraint. And this is a SR live or live series we do every two weeks. And on this series, we have all sorts of guests and we have a very special guest joining us today that will tell you about in just a moment, but to tell you a little bit about the Alliance, if you're not familiar with who we are and what we do, start the alliance against cusion restraint about four years ago now, time has just continued to move. Started the Alliance really initially around the issue of restraint, seclusion, happy in schools across the country, are our mission continue to grow. And we focus on not only restraint, seclusion, but restraint, seclusion, suspension, expulsion, corporal punishment, all the things that are often being done to kids very often in the name of behaviour. It's even really much broader than that we're concerned about these things happening in lots of places that they happen, the troubled teen industry, in the mental health settings, and really all across the world, we have a firm belief that we can do better for people. And when we can do better for people, we need to do better for people. Our vision in terms of school is about safer schools for students, teachers and staff. So excited about that. And let me tell you, I am extremely excited that you've heard me say this before you every week, you probably or every two weeks, you hear me say really excited about our guests. And I mean it. I'm always really excited about our guests, because we have some really fabulous guests that join us. But today, I'm extremely excited to have Chaz Lewis joining us for a special discussion. And as I say Chazz Lewis, you probably know him by Mr. Jazz, and he is going to be joining us and really kind of sharing some of his thoughts and background, we're going to have a good conversation interview. And of course, as always, this session will be recorded. So it will be available live on Facebook, YouTube. And LinkedIn, we also make it available on audio podcasts, that usually comes a few days after. And you, we encourage you, whenever we do these, share them with other families, share them with friends, share them with coworkers, share them, you know, if your family members, share them with a teacher, if your teachers sharing with your families. There's a lot of really great content that we cover here. And again, it's all kind of in the name of you know, how do we how do we make the world a better place. And so it happens with you helping to Sharon, and really get that information out there. So with that, let me skip right to what's really important today, and introduce to you our very special guests. Really excited here to have Chaz Lewis and Jazz's mission is really about helping adults truly see guide and trust children. He's pushing the needle a little closer towards world peace. And, you know, I agree with you, you know, you're doing really amazing work, you know, with the approach that not only he takes, but that he talks about that he advocates for, and that he's pushing for change. He's an educational specialist, a parent coach, a country answers, discipline, provide practitioner, content creator, and of course, goes by Mr. Chas, and even has a song to prove it. And I've got to let you know chess. So we had the fortune of being together recently in Houston for a conference, and I had a chance to catch up with you before you went on. And of course, was in your session. I think I may have heard this song before. But I gotta tell you, I flew home on Wednesday night, two really big, big, full busy days, feeling pretty tired. I got home around midnight. And you know what was in my head?
Chazz Lewis:What's my
Guy Stephens:chance went? And I told my wife, I'm like, I've got the Mr. Cat song stuck in my head. So at any rate, first of all, welcome and thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to join us today.
Chazz Lewis:Well, thank you for having me on. It's, you know, this conversation has been a long time coming. We met a while ago at the monetary Lahug training. And so it's exciting to be able to have this conversation and talk to your audience and hopefully really help a lot of people out there.
Guy Stephens:Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm equally as excited. You know, I guess it was probably about a year half a year and a half ago or so I think we met in Virginia for an event that Mona del hook was doing and and that was fantastic. And you know, to me already at that point I knew I knew of your work and who you are and you know I ended up you know, meeting people through this work that you know not to overuse the word as a Super Bowl taught me but our rock stars are people that are out there doing amazing work that you know, as you said and kind of the the intro there about pushing the needle trying to make change and that's really what we're all about to is you know, how do we how do we make change and you know, I had the great fortune to sit in your presentation the other day and although I wasn't able to see all of your your presentations, it was it was really tough. You know, I learned a lot more about you than I already knew so I you know, I knew a bit from seeing a lot of your videos. I know the kinds of Things that you that you talk about I know a lot of the messaging, but I learned even more about kind of your background at that point. So that might be a really great starting point for our audience. Of course, you know, we talked about you being an educational specialist, you were a teacher, can you tell us a little bit more about kind of how you came to the field of education? And we'll start with that, and then we'll talk a little bit more about your journey.
Chazz Lewis:Yeah, so honestly, either, when I first started working in early childhood, I really didn't know what I was doing. And it was really one of those situations where you're just kind of like, thrown in there. And there, you know, I was with some veterans, but I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. And I started off really using a lot of the same techniques that I grew up with, with the, you know, the punishment and shaming was in a Montessori classroom. And so while, you know, I am grateful that I was able to learn a lot about Maria Montessori method. You know, the way there were, there were parts that were being implemented really well. And there were some things that I just recognized as being in the classroom that I really wanted to change. It was, there were things that were happening and things that I that I was doing, you know, following their lead, and just kind of following the lead of just how I was, you know, grew up that I didn't like, and I decided that that wasn't the the teacher I want to be let him know, that wasn't the person that I want it to be. And so that's when I made the decision, like, Okay, I need to find a different way, there's got to be a different way to guide children other than just yelling louder, taking things away, punishing, greater trying to scare them into compliance, to get them from point A to point B. And that was, you know, a long journey didn't happen. It's not like I read a book. And then I was like, Okay, I got it. Now I got it. You know, there were a lot of the I had a lot of aha eureka moments, where I was like, Wow, that's so I never thought about doing it that way. But so the practice and the implementation of it is a lot more difficult than just reading about it. And so that's kind of the beginning of my journey, I'd say kind of in the classroom.
Guy Stephens:Sure. So I want to dig a little bit deeper. But before I do, I want to do something I usually do. And I think it was just so excited to dive right into this conversation I didn't. And that is I wanted to ask people that are on live with us now, to tell us who you are and where you're from. You know, just we have a really diverse and amazing audience here. We've got a lot of parents of kids, you know, kids that have often been through very punitive, you know, things like restraint, seclusion, suspension, expulsion, all of that. We have a lot of self advocates, a lot of Autistic Self Advocates, we also have a tremendous number of teachers, administrators, paraprofessionals, we have related professionals, OTs, and speech language folks, really a really broad group. And I would say the thing that brings us together is this idea like we can do better. And, you know, that's always been like one of my guiding philosophies. And of course, you know, I go back to that famous quote, but it's the idea of like, you know, we do how we can and when we know better, we do better. That's what this is all about, and what this work is all about. So in that vein, I'll just say to you that we typically have people from all over the world that join in, and it's really amazing, because I think back when, you know, I was young and a long distance call across the country was a big deal. And now we routinely have people joining us from all over the country. And it's all over the country and all over the nation. I always tell people, Mike, you know, usually sometime in the next few minutes, we we have people from New Zealand come online or Australia or, you know, lots of folks from Canada. And already I see people that are jumping in she Michelle, who's from Nebraska, regular here at the Alliance live. We have somebody here from Ontario, a teacher from Kalamazoo, in my neck of the woods here from Maryland. And Michelle just said we're building an army, but but people from all over. So I just wanted to acknowledge that, you know, we really do have a great audience that you'll be reaching, of course, you have a tremendous worldwide reach as well. But I do want to let you know that people from all over are going to be watching this today and I'm really excited about it. So go ahead.
Chazz Lewis:Yeah. I really love that and because when I first started on my journey, it was like I didn't really have a community around me there was no one in my building was really kind of on the same journey that I was on and the people around me the people that I was expected to learn from were people who had not chosen to kind of hang up the shame and fear and punishment. And so that this is huge. I'm so thankful that we live in a time where it is so much more accessible people, you know, you know, it's so much easier to kind of build, commute or find commute to find other people who are on this journey with you. And you can get tips and tricks and strategies and perspective from people all over the world. And so I, I just love that we're here together. And I love that I'm able to be in a position to kind of give because I know that when I started, like, I didn't have that. So yeah, no, I
Guy Stephens:hear you. And, you know, I often tell people that when I first started the alliance, the very first mission, if you would, I we hadn't formalized the mission statement. But my initial mission was, I wanted people that were going through something similar to what we were going through to know they weren't alone. And I wanted them to know, they could do things that influence change. And that's where we start. It was like, you know, it was really isolating to be experiencing some of the same things or even if you're a change maker or a disruptors we sometimes refer to, it's really hard if everyone around you is kind of sticking to the way things have been done. And it's isolating. You know, we just got back you and I both from a conference in Houston, the Creighton, trauma sensitive schools conference, which was held by the attachment trauma network, and I tell you, one of the best things about being there is the community is the amazing changemakers that, you know, you you've known online, or you've talked to in the past, or, or whatever it may be, and, and I love, absolutely love and value how authentic accessible, just the fact that you know, I mean, again, these people that as I started this journey were like, these are these are just rockstars the fact that I could sit down with you jazz and and have these discussions, it means so much, it means so much to me, it means so much to our community. So I'm I'm right there with you. And, again, we've got people already saying you know, love and share your work. Somebody else here from Canada, Canada, Detroit, I, there we go, my first Australian here today. So again, this is such a honor and pleasure to be able to do this with you. But wow, what, what did it what it is to be able to have this kind of community and I really appreciate your support in that. Yeah, happy to be here. So let me dig a little bit deeper. And I don't always dig this deep. But I think it might be interesting. And of course, I'm I we were kind of prepared quickly here. And then sometimes I asked like, is there anything I can or can't ask? So hopefully, I don't ask anything I can.
Chazz Lewis:There's nothing that you can you can ask me anything.
Guy Stephens:Okay. So I am thinking about, you know, we talked about the beginning of your journey in terms of education, but I want to get back even a little bit further. What was education? Like for you? What was what was school like for you? And I asked that question with kind of some some thought behind it, but I'll let you address it and, and you're gonna hear where you go.
Chazz Lewis:Yeah, well, I grew up with ADHD. And so a lot of the, I received a lot of the shame and punishment and I grew up being you know, getting weapons, getting spanked, whatever you want to call it. And so I very much know what that felt like. I also know how ineffective it was for me. And I also remember one of the things that I want to like, I was kind of kind of been reflecting on the past week, and in going to the conference in Houston and I did a little interview and it just caused me to kind of reflect even more of just that. One of the things that I was kind of shamed for or criticized or punished for got in trouble for a lot was I was a talker, I was always talking and I was a busy body. But it's also just like talking, talking, talking. And so I would
Guy Stephens:tell you, that was hard for me to believe but it but it's not.
Chazz Lewis:Exactly. And what I, how I see it, how I see things and would just kind of helped me to help my perspective with children who have a hard time is that like, everyone's got a superpower. Everyone has a superpower. And I really truly believe that. Now what happens is, is that when you first get your superpower, even when you're you know you watch the Marvel movies, when someone first gets their superpower, they're you know, and even even as adults first getting used to power they're like fumbling all over the place or messing up their may you know, accidentally hurting people there's always like a woe is me, because they don't know how to use your superpower yet. And that's what it felt like growing up and now imagine a child who's new to everything. And they have these superpowers that have these really strong character traits are these really strong? Just yet character traits, things that are about them that are really their superpowers, but in the beginning of their life, it often causes harm, they don't know how to use it, they don't know how to own it. And what superheroes need what always happens, what they need is, one, they always need a mentor. Right, they always need a mentor. And so like, you know, Spider Man's mentor was like, Tony Stark, right, they always need a mentor to kind of help them kind of guide them along the journey. And they also need time to practice and to make mistakes, right. And so, you know, you could really watch any kind of superhero, like origin story. And it shows that, and that's what it really feels like, for me. And talking being my superpower, not really know how to how to use it. My I didn't really have mentors who were knew how to kind of help me with my superpower. And so it was really difficult growing up. And when my goals as someone who's tasked with being a mentor, a lot of people have adults, children, of people is to really hone in and tap into, you know, people's superpowers. And I recognize a lot of times, when I'm having conversation with people, they'll look at their thing, you know, what are the superstars, they'll say, like, I'm too passionate about this, or I was, like, that's a superpower. That's, that's something that's not a bad thing. Now, you may have been criticized for it in the past, and there may be opportunities for you to improve on how you utilize your passion, how you utilize all that energy, but it's not a bad thing. And so I really, you know, try to help people understand that in use that, and with children, it's also a little bit more regulating for me. So because when a child is a busy body, or they're, maybe they're, you know, doing a lot of name calling, or whatever it is, I really try to see, like, from the perspective like this is, one, this is a, you know, this is not a bad kids, a child who is having a hard time, often having a hard time learning how to use their own power. And so that's the way that I see it. And that's the way that you know, it's that perspective is really informed by just the way I grew up. Now, as an adult, I make my living talking, right, like, as a teacher, you know, you do a lot of talking and moving. And that's part of that's one of the reasons why I decided to, you know, stay in education. Honestly, when I came, and when I started working in early childhood, it wasn't really a, oh, this is what we do for the rest of my life, I'm going to, you know, move the world closer to world peace, I'm going to say that was not what I was thinking at all. Honestly, I didn't really want to be in education just because of my experiences in education. And it wasn't just like, I'm gonna go to education and change it, it was like I'm in here. And then I started to see like, wow, this is, I started to see how big this was, and how important this was, and how I could use my superpowers and understand those kids who are having a hard time. The other. One of the reasons why I decided to stay like this is actually something I really want to do is that, like, I noticed that there's a lot of teachers who had a hard time relating to those kids who have a hard time, and I could relate to it, because it's like, I was always in trouble growing up. And so I could really, it's easier for me, it seems like it's easier for me to kind of give that empathy that that child really needs than, you know, the, you know, some of the other teachers. And so, now I'm making a living off of talking, and I'm, you know, I get comments on my videos. And people come up to me, like, at the conference, like people come up to me and talk to me about how I have impacted their relationship with their, you know, with their daughter or their son, or how, like my content has changed has been life changing for them. And that is just, you know, it's been so 360 Like, you're in such a full circle kind of moment for me. Yeah.
Guy Stephens:Well, I can't, I can't say I'm surprised to hear that. I mean, you know, one of the things I love about a lot of the content that you produce is it's these short pieces of wisdom that are so meaningful. I was trying to describe it to someone the other day about about your videos, and you say these things in such a way that when you get done, it's like, well, yeah, of course, or else it's uh huh. You know, I hadn't really thought about it from that perspective before. So I think you're the you've got an ability to communicate. I think that is amazing. And I love this analogy that you've used. You know, I remember, you know, I've got two kids, I've got a daughter who's 13 I've got a son, that's 17 My son is neurodivergent. I've verb one when he was very young. You know, I always saw his differences as things that were in many cases, strengths, some of them lead to challenges. Some of them were, it's hard to be neurodivergent in neurotypical world Well, that wants to make you neurotypical, that shouldn't be the goal, right? Our goal should not be to make everybody the same, but rather, when we find people that have these, you know, individual differences that and again, I mean, some of them can be struggles, but there are differences as well, that really can be, you know, can be gifts and can be really, you know, assets for people. So I remember always trying to make that point with him. But, you know, even thinking about, you know, myself here, I mean, it was probably my hyper focus and, and persistence that led to the formation of a group. I mean, I, you know, as I was, I've been working same job for 25 years with no idea of, of changing my career. And I started the Alliance, because somebody had done something, my son, and I could not break my train of focus, I had to do something, I had to do something to make a change. So I think when we're able to follow those differences that you talk about, I mean, that's, that's huge. But it's, yeah, yeah, I love I love the way you put that story. So what took you because I knew a little bit about your, your backstory. But you know, and I'll say, and you probably can, you know, back this up as well. Often the people that I've come across that are in roles like yours, and doing work, like the work that we're doing here, kind of collectively, are people that had a hard time in school? Or, you know, it's kind of surprising when you think about it's like, how do you go from having being a student that we had a hard time and was on the wrong side of being misunderstood? To suddenly like, hey, I want to be a teacher. So what was that moment for you that kind of got you? I mean, what got you down the road of education to say, Oh, well, you know, let me let me dip my toes in this. And knowing that at the time you made that decision, because we all are making these decisions. When we don't have fully developed brains, right? We're 17 years old and supposed to figure out what we want to do with our lives without a fully developed prefrontal cortex. And of course, nobody tells us that. So what did it look like for you? How did you decide to kind of take this path? Oh,
Chazz Lewis:man, man, that is a question. So So honestly, I didn't again, like I said, I didn't when I started working with kids, it wasn't this big, grand scheme of, you know, to be in education and to be a world changer, or to change anyone's life. It was honestly, just, my friend had got a job at an early childhood center. And they said, they were looking for more people. And I was looking for work. And so I was like, oh, that sounds like something I could do. And I previously volunteered and done some work with some kids. And I enjoyed it, though. That's something I like, I like kids, you know, and at that point, it wasn't like, I love kids, but like, you know, my kids, I can be around kids. And then I really, and then I really spent time. And I really saw number one, the, the impact, it was just so clear to me. Like how, one the impact that you're making in these kids lives, that that, like, you are really impacting them, and like really programming them in their most like formative years. And I was really, when I first started working with, you know, children, it was just really just three to five year olds. And like, I want I could see the impact I was making that was inspiring to me, too. You know, even though I didn't know what I was doing, I guess apparently other people did. I knew what I was doing. Because they would always give me like the kids. Like, even my seniors, they the people who were like the veterans, they would give the kids who like we're having a hard time
Guy Stephens:they work your magic, right? Yeah, they're like, hey, yeah,
Chazz Lewis:Figure Figure this out on our to do so. And those kids were really did challenge me and it was, you know, it was tough. And I want to make, I want to just, like just re emphasize the point that like, those super powers, the powers that the children have, that they are challenges, they usually equate to challenges in the younger year, because there's just so much power, it's just so much for them to handle that they don't know how to like, really, you don't really utilize. And so it was things like that. And then I started learning when it was me kind of embarking on this journey of just like, oh, there's a different way to do this. And that was like, that was a thing that was just like really exciting for me of just like finding, like just different ways to guide children without using like punishments and shame. And that was just inspiring, and people kept coming started coming to me and started coming in for advice. Now meanwhile, this is all happening with me. Like you know, my professional set setting. Now my family life. And what by like parents were telling real really mostly my mom because she's always she's kind of been the one who's always kind of been on me my whole life and I got really, really involved in and really trying to be involved and really just wanting me to be successful in life. She's like, you're at this, you're working early childhood, like, you're not making a lot of money, like, go pretty much like, go get a real job and go get a job and you know, like, or does work in the government, she's like, Hey, I got connections, like, you can come work in the government. And I was also interested in like, government, and like, I was going to school for, like political science at first. And, and so like, it was not, it was something I was interested in doing. But it just, I just didn't have that passion for interest for him. I just have a passion, you know, somebody
Guy Stephens:that worked in government for a long time, and I did. It might have killed your passion can be a tough place to be. I mean, you know, I spent a good part of my career in government in university settings. And again, great jobs, great benefits, great stability. But this what we're doing here, now, it there's such a need. And it's so important. And I mean, the passion. I mean, I know the passion you have for the work that you're doing. I hope your mother is very proud of all that you're doing now and the lives that you're changing, because you know, there is no greater. There's no greater work than than making a positive difference in other's lives. And you're doing them and you are the real deal. Sorry, to cut you off. But
Chazz Lewis:you're good. Yeah. So I actually entered it did a summer job because I was like, you know, like, she makes a good point, like the amount of money that I was making. And then I was going in, and she's like, Oh, no, you can intern here and kind of do that for the summer. So that kind of took a little bit of break from the from, you know, working education. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm making like, twice as much money to intern. I'm not even going to have that much of a like responsibility. Like, okay, yeah. Money. And you know, also too, as a kid, like, I want the white picket fence, like, I want the American dream, like, in an education like you don't, that's not really, you struggle financially, right. It's kind of part of the job. And I understood that. And so I did the internship. And it was draining it Kitt, it was like, oh, man, this is like school, was like, I can not do that. Like, I was depressed. But I was making bank, I was making money. Like, that's the most money that I had ever seen. Even when I started working back in education I had to get I was, you know, a lead teacher, and I would have so much more responsibility, I still wasn't making. So I was making, like,$16 an hour for the internship, and I literally went there. And just like, I was, I was just pretty much a body that it was just like, and I hear a lot of government work is like,
Guy Stephens:I know, some great people in government work right? Not to down government workers. And, you know, I mean, part of it might be I mean, I mean, I'll say I mean, an ADHD, mind, neurodivergent mind may not be best suited in a very structured government. I mean, and again, I mean, I know people that do wonderful work, but yeah, it's a totally different beast.
Chazz Lewis:100%. And so I really summed it all up, I figured out that that was not right for me. And then, but I have this other thing that I was doing that was just like, like, there was just this internal thing that it was, like, just screaming out, like, like, like, this is where you belong, like, you belong in education. And I just couldn't ignore that. And I would work, you know, all day, and by the end of the day, I'd be exhausted. But like, so content unfulfilled, and I'd wake up the next morning, I'm not a morning person. And so like, I'd wake up and I'm, like, Oh, I'm like, I don't want to get up. I don't want to, like, do anything, like I need to sleep longer, gonna be laying in bed, and then I'd be like, contemplating and thinking about like, Okay, well, what is my day that will actually look like and actually thinking about, like, what, you know, I had planned for the day for my kids and like, the impact, like what are the goals that I had with each of them, and the connections that I had with each of them and that literally got me up out of bed that literally, like got me out of the bed and woke me up and and like, pushed me out the door. And so that's when I was like, this is where I belong. And then at some point, I kind of like rationalized it okay, but I still want like there's that survival thing like, okay, but I'm going to be making like, I'm still not going to be making enough money to meet my financial goals. Even though I have this passion is like okay, I can kind of like I can I can. I can make that trade off for me. I don't need a fancy lifestyle like for me, maybe other people do feel like they need that. But like for me, I don't need a fancy lifestyle and I'd rather be I'm going to be like working eight hours a day like I'd rather be doing something that I enjoy and fulfill fulfilled by The other part that kind of like, was inspiring is like, you know what, because I'm so passionate about what I do, I'm going to do like, I'm going to do put a 210% in every day, I'm going to, which is going to, like, cause me to grow and learn in this thing, and it's going to, it's going to make me great at this thing. Because I'm so passionate about it, I'm so focused on it, that I can actually be great at this thing. And, you know, I think, you know, when you become great at something, like you, you learn a lot, because, you know, I'm so interested in it, like you are able to give that value to other people. And there's, there's an opportunity to make some kind of money.
Guy Stephens:Unexpected things can happen, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and I think I mean, the important thing is, is like money is not your goal, somehow, you know, when you're just doing these amazing things, things will figure out a way to work. Yeah, that's fantastic. So tell me a little bit more about kind of the the transformation. So, you know, you know, school is not easy, you know, it's not always a great environment, you know, you decide to go down this path. But then there's all the pressures of, you know, and trust me, I grew up in summertime, like, you should go into computers or medicine, I mean, like, there were these expectations of the things you should do. And like, you know, I got out of college, and I went and worked for a local government, then eventually the federal government, and then eventually University was kind of like, that was a pathway, it was really secure. But let's talk a little bit then about, you know, where, you know, because you got it and you had these experiences, and, you know, early childhood, you saw things that weren't working, but you saw things that did work, you develop began to develop your style, people began to recognize what you were doing. And then then how did it blossom into Mr. Chas, Mr. Chairs? When did it go to suddenly not only you know, were you were you learning this and being recognized, but suddenly you tell me about the birth of, of, you know, kind of the online, you know, work that you were doing and all that.
Chazz Lewis:Yeah, you know, so I'd been doing this for a while, you know, I was working in the classroom, people were asking for advice, I was sharing advice. And then the light bulb went off was like, Oh, wow, I could like actually support teachers, if I support teachers, and in schools, like my impact can be exponential. And like, that's something I really want to do, I really want to just, you know, really help more people on this from the journey that I went on. And before people started asking me for advice, I didn't really see myself as that guy who was just like, I'm just here to learn and grow and get better and better and better and better and continue learning. And so I was doing the in, that's when I was, you know, the role that was was educational specialist. So I was doing that for a while. And then the pandemic happened. And then that's when I was like, you know, the teachers went home, most, most of the teaching was the kids went home, and the job was looked a lot different. And, you know, really, parents became the 24/7 everything for their children. And, you know, I was online and, you know, really start to see how they were struggling, you know, they were kind of communicating through like, you know, social media, and it's like, oh, like, all these different things. Like, can you believe I can't, it's like drawing on the wall, and all these things. And a lot of the struggles that I saw people talking about were struggles that like, I went through and like had grown up perspective about, you know, whether it was the hard way, or best set up a bunch of times, making a lot of mistakes and finding different ways of do things. And that's when I was like, you know, I want to find a way, there's got to be another way for me to kind of share the lessons that I learned along my journey in sharing with parents. And that's when I started to make little like, tic TOCs. And my thought process was, if I can make like short, bite sized videos that are fun, easy to consume, but you feel like you have a new tool, at the end of it, all your perspective is going a little bit that can make a pretty significant impact. And so that's what I started to do. And I decided to share it on Instagram, Facebook, and then that turned into the podcast, because really, for two reasons. One, I wanted to, you know, that short, little bite sized videos are great, but there's still always going to be a little bit some nuance that's going to be lost in a one minute video. And so that's what the Why do an hour long podcast so we can really dive in nuance. And the other piece was to bring on, you know, new people so that people could find, you know, if you're embarking on this journey, you can find teachers from all around the world that resonate with you, that you can kind of bring into your kind of ecosystem of community of teachers that are can help you along on your journey. Because again, that's something that I really was kind of struggling to find in the beginning. So that's kind of how things happen.
Guy Stephens:Yeah. And then then, you know, hundreds of 1000s of followers later, I don't know what your numbers look like right now. By the way, maybe coordinating behind the scenes can find the link to your podcast and share that as well.
Chazz Lewis:Mr. chasis leadership panting and teaching podcast is what it's called.
Guy Stephens:Okay, perfect. So we'll try to get that link in the, in the chat here. So, you know, I've got, I think we've kind of gone through a good arc of kind of, like, where your story came from. I know from from kind of, you know, tuning in and watching that there's, there's a lot of things that you're passionate about, you know, one of the things I've seen you talk about a lot is, you know, corporal punishment hitting kids, you know, kind of adverse of discipline. Can you talk to me a little bit more about kind of, you know, one your, I mean, I know what your views are, but can you share with the audience, kind of what your, your views are, how they were informed, and you know, what you're hoping to provide the parents and educators, I mean, we still have 19 states that allow corporal punishment in public schools, and I'll share with you, I grew up very young, I went to a couple of religious schools where I was subjected to corporal punishment, and very young ages, for doing things that just did not do not make sense. Now, what didn't didn't make sense then. So, you know, having been through some of those experiences, you know, can understand even, you know, now many, many, many, many years later, the Harmer can have so you talked a little bit about that issue, and we'll get into some of the other things that are really important to you.
Chazz Lewis:Yeah. I mean, I, like I said, I grew up getting spanked. And it just never, it never felt effective. When it was happening. You know, I just wishes P owed at the end of it. There was no really me reflecting on my action, there was no, there was no real learning that came from it. And so, you know, when I started working with children, I didn't really have a strong stance on it. You know, again, it was just, it wasn't something that I really deeply reflected on. Until I started working with children. I started like, Hey, I don't want to, like if I don't want to, like, if it doesn't feel good for me to yell, like, why would I and I wasn't, we weren't allowed to hit them. So they would just United is not like something I really wanted to do, which is something that was never on the table. But as I reflect more as I started to, like learn other ways to do things, like it just the spanking and the the hitting of children, like it just made less and less sense to me, even outside of all the research. Yeah, like, you know, there's, there's lots of lots of research to support that spanking is harmful reasons that you shouldn't do it. But honestly, people who, you know, are already like, really believe in speaking of resorts probably isn't going to change their mind. You
Guy Stephens:know, these consequences kids, kids need to, you know, feel the pain of Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that. And a lot of mentality I mean, you know, I I remember sitting in a hearing one time, I think, was in Maine, and some lawmakers were talking about things like restraint, seclusion, they were talking about how this is a lawmaker in public saying, Well, you know, I heard Maine has some of the higher rates of restraint, seclusion, but we also have some of the lower crime rates. So it must be working. It's just like that the the, you know, the the connections that people draw, and you know, it's interesting. We were, were you in Lori's opening keynote, by any chance? I don't know, if you had a chance I was working. Yes, we sat and listened to it. And I've been Laurie for some time, and, you know, think so highly of her. But you know, even and I told her, I'm like, You did such a fantastic job. I've seen her speak many times. And for some reason, this one really stuck out to me. But even when I've heard her message, I was sitting there and something new popped in my head. And we were we were talking about, you know, consequences and discipline. And of course, you know, you talked in your session a bit about the brain. And you know, the brain science behind this. And, you know, we always hear people say things like, well, we punish them to teach them a lesson, or we're going to teach them a lesson or they need consequences. And you know, of course, what we know is that when kids are punished, it is this regulating, it's this regulating to be punished. And when you become dysregulated, your prefrontal cortex, the thinking part of your brain does what it goes offline. So you're not teaching at a time when somebody's prefrontal cortex is offline. And it just had this kind of moment where I'm like, you know, it just makes no sense when people say when it's like, well, we want to teach them a lesson. If you want to teach them then then reframe the word discipline to mean what it should mean which is the teach and actually teach people teach people skills teach them abilities. Yeah, go ahead and good.
Chazz Lewis:It you know, too, I've been in a position where it's like, child did something some kind of undesirable behavior something and I you know, punish the child or make the child feel bad I was just very good. I was dragging my finger yelling at the child and like, and never really liked solves anything and it just it like I've been in situations and enough time. seems to just recognize that it just creates more of an issue. And that like, you know, and as I started to learn more about like the body and the brain, like, I can now recognize more what was happening and like, what, what what is happening is that like that they are like that, that still stays in their body. Like, it doesn't have to, like punish them and make them feel bad for what they did. Like, when you when you're ready to move on from them, because you feel like justified, okay, like I've punished you enough, you feel bad? Or let's move on. They're still in that like mode. And now like, Dad, I gotta deal with that. And like, what are you going to punish them more to get them to like, stop crying, I'll get you know, I'll give you something to cry about is that's usually what that's when that comes out. And it's just so counterproductive.
Guy Stephens:And you don't punish pain or trauma out of kids, you punish pain and trauma into kids. Right? And of course, you know, what's that? What's the effect of that? You know, you're you're putting them down into a defensive state, you're making them feel unsafe, you know, all those things happen. And none of it's beneficial. It's not beneficial for serving the purpose. did want to just share here real quick, you may remember Joe Brummer from college. So Joe is apparently joining us here as well, for this and Joseph, what's my name? And you know, I would get up and dance? Well, I won't. But I do want to take a minute to pause here and then say, jazz I can I can keep you busy with questions all day. But I want to our audience have a chance to interact with you as well. Okay, and ask some questions. So if you're watching live, feel free if you have a question to put it in the chat. And I'll, I'll try to get to some of those questions as well as we go. So moving on, while we're waiting for people to kind of think about some questions they have. Tell me tell me what else? I mean, tell me what else are some of your, your core beliefs around the shift that needs to happen in the world? I mean, it's not just education, right? What are some of your core beliefs? I mean, I hear you talk about them a lot. And you talk about them often in these kind of, you know, these bite sized pieces. And, you know, I was telling somebody the other day, there was a show on many moons ago when I was younger, I was talk show was Arsenio Hall. And he had a segment called things that make you go. And I said, you know, Chas does that too. He says things and you're just like, you know, you just get to reflect and think about things a little differently. So I mean, what are some of the things that are really important to you? What are some of the issues that you really focus on? Yeah.
Chazz Lewis:Either before I even go into like strategies, because I will hopefully people ask questions. And you'll ask about, like, you know, how to handle certain situations, I dive deeper into strategies, but like, the most important thing that I take of all my messages is that perfect doesn't exist. Avoid being a perfectionist, being improved dentist, the goal isn't to be perfect every day, the goal is to improve a little every day. And that is, and the reason why that's the most important thing is because you're gonna go, you're gonna read books, and listen to podcasts, you're gonna hear new strategies, you're gonna try different things. And, you know, some things may go like, Oh, wow, that worked way better than I thought it would. And some things like wow, that that did not go the way I thought it was going to go. Because mistakes are an essential part of the learning process. That's another one, the stakes are a central part of the learning process, that you when you go in to the class to try something new, you should expect to make mistakes, like that is a part of learning. And that's why children are, you know, constantly making mistakes all the time. And, you know, they're new to everything in the world, right? They're new to relationships, they're new to the environment, they're new to our routines, they're new to us, they're new to each other, like, and so, you know, we should really expect mistakes. And really, why that's so important is because the central for all the other little strategies that we could talk about is that if you're not able to, like give yourself empathy, in these moments, we're trying things you're gonna have a very hard time giving empathy to children. And what you're going to do is, things aren't going to go your way, and you're going to shame yourself, you're going to beat yourself up, probably some of that programming that you received as a child is going to pop up some of the same things you heard growing up, you're going to say to yourself, and that's going to stop you from actually improving from actually taking a step and actually how little motto that I kind of use, I really have to say to myself, a lot of the times when things wouldn't go my way. You know, someone would, you know, I'm teaching them how to, you know, pour milk or something like that, and they pull their entire picture or something like that happens. It happened can't change it to really except that it happened. And there's nothing that I can do to change that in that moment. But what I can what do you have control over? is what I do next? What I do in this next moment, I do have control over so it happened can't change it. Okay, now what can I do? Now? What is within my power? I can't go back five minutes if I could go back in time, five minutes ago, and maybe give you a little bit more support with that point. Or, you know, give you the words to say to solve that problem or give you you know, A sensory tool to help you kind of regulate instead of pushing someone, I do it, but that's not the way reality works. It happened can't change it, gave myself empathy, give them empathy and move on, and no problem. And when we're able to do that, they're going to be more able to do that. And they're gonna learn how to do that themselves to a lot of times behaviors happen, because, you know, misbehaviors, undesired behavior behaviors happen, because, you know, they're having a hard time doing that themselves.
Guy Stephens:Right. And I think as an adult, even being able to own our own behavior, and when we make mistakes, and I think, being authentic with a kid and saying, Hey, I didn't handle that. So Well, I think that's important. I mean, we all have those moments, and we might not be able to change things. But we certainly all have those moments. I want to get to a couple of questions. But before I do, I just want to ask you one other thing that I've wanted to ask him and we haven't I haven't asked you this before. But of course, we focus on restraint, seclusion, and all the negative things that are often done to kids very often in the name of behavior. And you know, one of the things that we find around the use of restraint seclusion is that although at a high level, it's really intended as a crisis management intervention. What we find your kids are very often restrained and secluded for, you know, misbehave, not misspeak, excuse me, I mean, it's a misbehavior, but for non compliance, for disrespect for power struggles for all sorts of things, and you go from failure to complete a worksheet to suddenly being held down to the ground or put into a room by yourself. Just kind of curious, your take on things like restraint, seclusion, and, you know, the, you know, that one of the the biggest changes, I think needs to happen, of course, is always in the adult minds shift. And, you know, what your thoughts are, and how we shifted out mindsets, as well around things like this.
Chazz Lewis:Yeah. Well, you know, I find that that is like the, it's kind of all in the same conversation of, of spanking of, you know, forced isolation, like, it's kind of all, you know, we I think that's why it's so important to really, in your mind to decide to kind of make a commitment not to, like, use those kind of like, like, fear control, shame based strategies, because it really focus on, you know, other ways to guide children's support children. Because what happens is, it comes from our own dysregulation our own, like, I don't know what else to do in this moment, I don't know how to handle this situation, I'm in kind of my survival mode, I'm in my survival state. And when we're in our own survival state, it's gonna be harder for us to offer empathy, like it literally will shut off the empathy in our brain, when we're just trying to survive. And we perceive this our brain, you know, sometimes there's another difference between a child having a hard time throwing a temper tantrum, and like, the, you know, a lion bearing down at us, right, or it sometimes it may even, you know, those are rare two big like trim examples, but our brains very old. And so it's been programmed that way. But a lot of times, it's really more of a like, even sometimes judgment of how my administrator or parent or teacher or even for ourselves, and like, because of that judgment, the way that they're the fear of judgment, like we go to these, these these harmful strategies. And a lot of times, it really comes down to our US will not really know what else to do. And not being able to really manage our own emotions. And not not also an understanding the behavior a lot of times too, I say patients really comes from understanding
Guy Stephens:and even recognizing the the impact that our own behavior has, right, I mean, our behavior can be a contagion to a kid a kid, that's, you know, when we come in guns blazing and yelling, and screaming and agitated, you know, that that carries over to any other human being that's on the other side of it. Even
Chazz Lewis:sad, or even, even sad, or to frustrated about something that's going on in the building, like, and we're all humans, we're gonna have these emotions, we're gonna have these feelings, but a lot of times, we're not even aware of it. We're not like as conscious of how much those feelings and those things are impacting how we are being in the ER, the energy that we're giving to children. And we're really, really, like, understand how contagious energy is. You can see it like I've seen it. I've had bad days, like, there are times where I have bad days and like, I noticed that when I'm having a bad day, like it's simply like, you know, the kids are gonna have worse days the class is gonna have a worse day and I need to be able to like, take a step back and be able to reset and the reset can look like a lot of different things could look like asking for a little like time out of the classroom, it could look like a dance party, it could look like me just doing some self talk, it could look like me saying, hey, co teacher, I just need you to like handle the classroom for a little bit. I need just some of it might be, hey, we're gonna go outside, I noticed all the time, and I'm gonna go outside, but I need some fresh air. Like, whatever that reset looks like there's a lot of different ways that we can reset, but just really recognizing that. Let me get to these questions.
Guy Stephens:So let me bring these up for you. And I can read it for you. So most place the page, how do you manage how it feels, when other co workers who do not agree with their strategies are affecting your students.
Chazz Lewis:So first thing to remember is that really the only person that we can change is ourselves that we don't really have the power to make this to make that shot or to make this other person change. really who they are, really think about it too is like I talked about my journey, like all this comes with a lot of mistakes, like, you know, like this, this comes with a lot of work, it comes with a lot of work. And if you're on this journey, you can probably appreciate how much work this is to change and to expect another person to make that change. It is a big ask. Now, we know what did we do in this situation. One thing is like who you are and your energy, and what you are bringing is going to have an impact, it's going to have an impact, people are going to pay attention. And the other thing is that, that recognizing that this is a human person, and the reason that they're their behaviors, the way that their behavior is, there's a reason right through their experiences, due to cultural background due to maybe the way that they were trained, like, there are still people who are being trained in like, harmful strategies, like, you know, you know, age difference could, you know, there's a lot of reasons why people behave the way that they do. And so to really come from a place of understanding and building a relationship with that person, and really authentic relationship with that person, you're going to impact, you know, and be able to influence, you know, they're behaving the way their perspective, more if you have a genuine relationship with that person. And you're also going to be modeling these strategies, and really focusing on improving yourself. It come with it, like, humbly, like, don't come like with, I have all the answers, and I don't do you need to stop what you're doing. And just listen to me because I know what I'm doing. And clearly you know what you're doing, they'll come out of like that, because they're gonna that's gonna be the quickest way for them to shut down for them to like, just shut down and shut off everything that you say. So that's what I would say. And one last thing I would say is, in this part is hard is that like these things take time, right, your own growth takes time. And also, you know, influencing someone else's growth, like it's going to take time, especially for it to be authentic growth. So that's what I would say with that. And, you know, in, hopefully, one last piece, one last thing that I would say is that, like, I really believe that I'm right now I'm in I'm in a classroom right now, the classroom. I went back, I didn't make it clear. But I went back into the classroom, working in early childhood, because I want to continue practicing and just getting better what I do. When I went to interview, I wasn't looking for the nicest, fanciest school or the highest, I was really looking for a leader. I was really looking for a leader. I didn't choose a school, I chose a leader. Because I want to know that like, do we have a? Is there a driving philosophy? Or force? Like, is there something, right? Because if you're in a system of things that is counter to what you're doing, then, you know, like, it's gonna it's just gonna be tough.
Guy Stephens:Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, you're talking about philosophy. I did a session in Houston, about kind of how neuroscience and the right philosophy can really make a big change. And it really is, it's about philosophy. You know what I would say, and I won't say this too loud because of where you are. But I'm sure there are many people with good philosophies that would love to have you that. If you ever want to move somewhere around the world, I'm sure you could find a place to go. We'll say that quietly though. I do want to get to another question here from Chantelle who's actually one of our volunteers and is located in Canada. Chantal says repair so important when we do less than perfectly. How do you repair after difficult situations between you and your students?
Chazz Lewis:Apologize, and that's also a really great lesson and teaching them how to apologize with each other. You know, when we apologize last day, keep keep your butts in your parents. Don't say, you know, I'm sorry for yelling at you, but you didn't listen the first time Right, right, right. Right, right. Because that's really, that's not really an authentic apology if you have
Guy Stephens:a but it's not really an apology I was I was teaching my son that the other day is he had an apology that I had, but afterward, I'm like, leave it out. Even if you think it, you gotta leave it out,
Chazz Lewis:right. And it's hard even for us as adults to do it. Because, because if you were lucky enough to have adults in your life, who actually did apologize, the apologies. Again, it's like dinner's ready. Because they didn't apology I would get, but like, if you did get apology, it would probably come with a button. So like, again, you know, we get programmed with the ways that like were raised and the way you know how we were brought up. So it takes some reprogramming. Not to, like say that, but and just just to say, like, hey, and the other part of it is to say, is to make a commitment to what you're going to do better next time. And so it's not to say I'm, you know, I'm sorry that I yelled at you next time, I'm going to next time. Next time, I'm going to make a commitment to or next time, I'm going to, you know, take a breath, or I'm going to try to and we'll try to get us a different way to get your attention. We'll try to do clubs, or we'll try to do, you know, I'll come down on eye level, and I'll talk to you, whatever it is, whatever's working in this also, maybe not even opportunity to kind of collaborate, it's like, hey, Next time, let's do it this way. Let's, let's work it out this way. And just to problem solve for next time. And so that's how, you know, that's how when you mess up, that is how you do it. And it's, it's again, also, I don't think that mistakes are an opportunity for learning, not only their central part of the learning process, sometimes the mistakes are like they're, it's, you can really get into a place of being thankful. Now the moment you're not gonna be thankful, you're like, Ah, man, you know, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna gonna be going through it, but like in reflection, you can be thankful for the mistake, because if you made the mistake, that just means you had an opportunity for growth and opportunity reflect okay, what can I do better next time? Right.
Guy Stephens:Alright, so one from Australia here. Okay. Yeah, Francisco says, how to initiate an open conversation about how do adults feel when their expectations are not managed?
Chazz Lewis:How do they see? Oh, how adults view? So I mean, that I'm first I always, you know, validation or validation. And like, like, look, this was hard. This was difficult, like, working with children is difficult. Trying to get a group of children from point A to point B is hard. And I will like really, like, talk about as much as like, go into it, like, yeah, like, I've been there. Like, sometimes I get sweating, like you're trying to figure out like, what to do, you don't know what to do, you're getting upset, you want to yell at them. But you're trying to find a different way to do things like I really get into, like the validation, sometimes, I don't even do like problem solving. Because that's not, that's may not be what they need, especially if they're really dysregulated just like, Hey, I see you. And I'm here for you. Like that's, that is really difficult. And often, what typically happens is you validate, and you don't give someone, you know, a solution of what to do. They're like, Oh, yeah, I just don't know what to do. You know, though, usually, they'll, most of the times, especially if you have a good relationship with them. Normally, they'll open the door and say, like, hey, like, I just don't know how else to get all 17 kids out the door without anyone getting hurt. Right? I just don't know, how to, you know, get them to stop hitting each other, or to stop name calling, or to do their work, or to, you know, sit and you know, they'll frame it. However, they frame it from their perspective, I wouldn't judge them for the way that they ask the question, and may not be the way that you would word it. But then, you know, then that's when that's when I would open up and like, hey, well, you know, you know, that's when they're problem solving. There's time for problem solving, and kind of open that up and kind of give them some strategies, but you got to be really kind of aware, and kind of in tune with the person to know when is a good time to offer solutions and problem solving. And when a person really needs to be seen and validated and dislike heard.
Guy Stephens:So I know, from your your recent session that I attended that, you know, you're also a believer kind of in the brain science piece of this and understanding kind of how the brain relates to us feeling regulator dysregulated. And I happen to be a big believer in that work as well. It seems to me that kind of to that question that. You know, having adults have some of that basic knowledge of brain science, I think is really can be transformative, you know, when you begin to understand not only the brain and body state of your kids, but your own brain and body state, and how it can be influenced by the same things that influence kids. I think it's I think it's transformative. You know, I really do you have any thoughts on that?
Chazz Lewis:Yes. And I want to say not just for kids, and not just for working with kids, for all of your relationships in life, when you learn that, like, it's not about just the kids, it's just about your your friendships, your spousal relationships, your co workers, your boss, these strategies we talk about, like, I started off communication, as opposed to going aggressive or being passive. We've talked about giving empathy to others, we've talked about encouraging others, we've talked about being able to, you know, manage your own emotions, and keeping your composure and being able to self regulate, you know, we talked about all we're talking about all these being able to see the best in others. These are valuable skills and powers for any relationship. And that's like, honestly, one of the most like, powerful things about it. And I mean, that's why it works for kids, because it really allows them just learning about relationships. Right? Right. Right. And that's why this is just a long term, you know, strategy, you know, you're not going to like, Hey, I taught them to say, I don't like it, when you push me, please touch me more gently, you know, you, you know, practicing that with them, isn't going to be like, Okay, I taught that to them once, and this should be set for life. Now, this is ongoing work, and it evolves. And it becomes more complex, especially as you get older, and as your abilities kind of grow your skills grow. But being able to communicate, you know, I just gotta say that, you know, for a young child, I might be like, you know, teach him to say, like, a really like a toddler might teach them to say, stop, stop, right, Trump's learning to kind of hold a boundary, right, without biting and scratching, for a little bit of older child, maybe three on my sound like, I don't like it, I don't like that we're living in an older child, and like five minutes, I don't like it, when you push me, please do this. And we're kind of through the ages teaching them that how to communicate, hey, I'm not cool with this. This is how I'd like to be treated. Right? Which adults struggle with in for adults, even, you know, with it. And I've seen this working with adults, that even when are in our, like, co worker, or adult relationships, we struggle with this kind of communication to say, like, Hey, you crossed the boundary, I'm not cool with that. This is how I would like to be treated. A lot of times, a lot of people go to passive, they won't say anything, until they blow up, or they will go or they will start off aggressive. I posted really being able to communicate effectively. And I'll be way and this has real world impact on our relationships, and just our general well being.
Guy Stephens:You know, we talk about relationships a lot. And of course, you know, I've always kind of felt like, you know, the three R's of education, and probably parenting and everything else is you would say, is relationship relationship relationship. But, you know, we find that in a lot of our educational settings, a lot of the focus is on compliance and control. And you're not necessarily building relationships or abilities that make choices. When when everything is being told to you when you're doing all you're doing is following orders. That's a big mind shift. I think I think a lot of people look at kids as I mean, I hate to say this, but almost subhuman, like, kids don't have the same set of rights that an adult should have. And, you know, I think my I mean, you know, we all we all grow in this and we all learn more. And I think, you know, certainly my, my ideas have changed on this quite a bit. But I mean, I think, you know, the best way to raise a human being is by treating them like a human being by giving them a sense of choice and agency and listening and being compassionate.
Chazz Lewis:Yeah, I mean, it's the culture that we live in, right? I mean, we just live in a culture that treats children is less than because that they because they don't have the ability to produce, they don't have the same skills as US adults do, because they're, you know, there's still growing and learning developing. And so we treat them as less than and so we see a lot of times we see them as less than and, and it has real world impact with on how they're able to grow
Guy Stephens:and develop. Yeah, and Frank, frankly, I mean, probably leads down road to a lot of trauma. And of course, you know, what we know about that trauma is that trauma downstream then leads to, you know, drugs and alcohol leads to, you know, risky behavior leads to, you know, even more kind of going down the road, you know, I mean, when you say about kind of making the world a better place, I mean, I'm with you. I mean, I believe that if we can have people feel safe if we have people feel heard and seen, you know, we're going a long way into making progress, but there's a lot of work to be done out there. So it's tough.
Chazz Lewis:Can I say something on that and so like, I don't look at and I talked about world peace and like, some of you might be like me I know you're on board with him, you see exactly what I'm talking about, like, oh, that's unrealistic. But I'm actually really practical. I mean, I'm an optimist, but I'm also like, very practical I, you know, I talk about world peace. But I know that in my lifetime, like, you know, change takes time that in my lifetime, I'm probably not going to get to world peace, I don't really expect that. But for me, in the work that I'm doing and work I'm doing even with just with each individual child in the classroom, for the work that I'm doing online, that if I can just push the needle a little bit towards, you know, compassion and empathy and, and learning and growing children in a healthy way, that I'm just moving the needle, just a little bit towards world peace, and that someone else is going to take those lessons, maybe a child of a parent who's watched my videos, and they're going to take it and they're gonna, they're gonna move it a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. And the way that looks like parenting, I make the analogy of dislike iPhones, right, like, a lot of us, you know, like you're embarking on this journey. This is like a huge, especially with all the brain science, like that we have now and understanding that we have about the brain and body. It's like a huge innovation. So it's like the first iPhone. And so if you're embarking on this journey, with his knowledge, like celebrate pat yourself on the back leg, you're the first iPhone now, but it's going to be tough, because you were raised by Greta, like maybe pagers, or flip phone or rotary phone. But you know, and but all along you being that first iPhone, you're going to have software updates, you're going to print proof, and proof. But guess what, you're not going to be the perfect iPhone, ever. But what is going to happen is that your children are going to take all the updates and all the learning that you've done as an iPhone, and they're going to build off that and they're going to be the iPhone two, and their kids are going to be iPhone, I love your analogies. And it's going to build and build and build and build until you know, it's like Google Glass or whatever it is. But you know, we're not meant to break every unhealthy pattern behavior, every generational cycle. In our lifetime, we're just meant to move the needle as much as we can learn and grow as much as we can, and let the next generation you know, we're making progress
Guy Stephens:today, it'll be felt downstream. And I mean, I'm a big believer and make whatever change you can I mean, if you make a change for your child, that's a positive difference, you make a change for a classroom, that's a positive difference, you make a change for a school district, you make a change for a state, whatever it might be. I've always been a big fan of the fan, maybe the wrong way to put it. But the story of the starfish, you've heard that story about the starfish washed up on the beach, you ever heard that before? It's real short, but basically, you know, big beach, a bunch of starfish have washed up after a storm, a kid is there picking them up one at a time and kind of tossing them back in the water? And, and I'm probably not going to get this exact, so bear with me, you know what people but somebody walks along, older gentleman walks along and sees this kid and says, you know, hey, what do you do? And he's like, Well, you know, I'm trying to save them. And, you know, the guy says, Well, you know, there's just too many of them, you're not going to save them all, you know, or you can't possibly make a difference. And it kid throws one other one, and it says what made a difference to that one, you know, and sometimes that's where we need to focus, it's like, make a difference for that one, make a difference for your child, your school, your state, whatever you can do, and we're gonna, it's gonna have and again, you know, it's, it seems like a huge problem. But as we begin to focus and get more people on this journey, I think the better. Let me get to another question here Sunday, said what impact you think your race has on perceptions of your message and positive in the positive discipline world?
Chazz Lewis:Oh, that's an interesting question. You know, I think people so I'm gonna say, in the black community, we're very, you know, spanking is very prevalent in the black community. And so like, I'm gonna
Guy Stephens:say what you need to say.
Chazz Lewis:So like, a lot of times I talk about, like, you know, positive discipline and conscious, respectful, gentle, whatever parenting, a lot of people will say, like, oh, that's like, that's why people shit. Right. And, and so I think a lot of times, not everyone, right? There's no group has a monolith. But, you know, so I think sometimes people will see me and be like, Oh, wow, like, it's someone coming from the black community, saying, like, not take your kids not not going more step further. Like, this is how, you know, to help children in a healthy way without any kind of like, you know, without using fear and leaning on fear and leaning on shame. And I think that is like, Oh, wow. Like that's and I do you think like, okay, maybe there's, I can be maybe a little bit more open to the message, because it's like, hey, because there's this real concern in the black community that like, nursing mistakes are part of a learning process that like my black child will not be afforded the same mistakes as their white counterparts. Right. And so there is a real concern and so I think some people just like, might see someone maybe purchase a message but the might look might have fair skin, and like you don't, you know, immediately like you don't understand, right? Like you don't get it like you're not taking the cultural context into consideration with what you're saying you're only really using your experience as a white woman, a white middle aged woman, which is tends to be the kind of like, the majority of the people in the space. And so I think that that does kind of kind of help kind of spark some of those conversations. And that's a very, you know, I grew up black kid, black male with ADHD, like, I grew up, I recognize the reality that, you know, there's another piece to and I'm not gonna get, you know, that's a whole conversation. And I've had some of those conversations on my podcast. But, you know, what I say is that like, really, what's happening is, like, we as the black community has been treated with the same kind of fear, and shame and punishment tactics that we use on children, maybe not the same exact tactics, but the same kind of philosophy and methods have been used on the black community. And what happens is, a lot of times we to try to save our children, to protect them from the, you know, authorities from the police, is that we will use those same tactics, but what really happens is like, that's oppression, and what's really happening is that our black children don't have to leave our four walls to experience oppression, we become the conduit of oppression, by being harsher to our children, fear, I fear that a lot of times, that's what will, we will cite that I'm trying to protect my children, because I'm scared, I'm fearful. But that's why you know, that we are causing the harm, as opposed to really, we should be the safe space for that child, a place where they have, where they can have safe harbor, from that oppression that they may experience outside the home. So that's someone to come to. And there's so much more conversation that I can have on that. But yeah,
Guy Stephens:well, I tell you, we have covered a lot of ground and that, that, you know, kind of bringing that to the end of our show here, because we're gonna do it over time is such a powerful topic. And there, you're right, there is there is a lot to be covered there. And, you know, I think so much of what we're talking about, I mean, we often, you know, kind of frame a lot of what we talked about in the context of education, but the same things that are problems in education or problems elsewhere. I mean, when I think about the concerns, I have around approaches that are very compliance and control base. It's not just an education, it's law enforcement, it's, it's a lot of different places where we're seeing the same approaches leading to a lot of harm for individuals. And often, you know, I mean, often it's the same individuals. I mean, if we look at things like discipline data, we look at restraint, seclusion, data, it's kids with a disability, black and brown kids, kids with a trauma history. I did a presentation recently, and it's like, you trace that on down, and you can look at the school to prison pipeline, and see that we still have a system that's alive and well, that's pushing a lot of young, you know, you're young disabled, I mean, it again, that data I was looking at was ADHD was was all sorts of things. You know, you're young, neurodivergent black child, you know, your chance of ending up down that pathway goes up tremendously. And we've got a lot of work to do in a lot of areas. But I think the same principles, like you've talked about, I mean, it's all the all these things, it's in life, it's moving away from these kinds of approaches.
Chazz Lewis:Yeah, yeah. And that's why I named my podcast, Mr. Trump's leadership, parenting and teaching podcast, because it is all these different areas. But, you know, there is some hope that I have seen over the eons in my lifetime that I've been kind of in this space and been interested, like, there have seen there's more and more of a shift happening this in leadership in general there where we're using less fear base tactics and leadership across companies and also seeing, you know, data to support the success. And, and even even the bottom line, everyone's concerned about the bottom line, how are we gonna make money that, that the fear base tactics don't even help the finances?
Guy Stephens:Yeah. You know, I was talking one time at an event that I was doing and talking about kind of, you know, the fact that, you know, this compliance control, you know, this kind of approach doesn't work. And then somebody who's kind of arguing with me that it did work in their example was talking about gangs. And I'm like, it depends on what you mean by work, right? I mean, if you mean you can manipulate human behavior by doing negative things that be People. Yeah, there's some truth to that. But is that the world you want to live in? No. I mean, it's not the world I want to live in. I want to live in a world where, you know, we're valuing and we're supporting and we're, you know, so we've got a lot of work to do. Well,
Chazz Lewis:I know I gotta leave, but I want to leave you with something. Alfie Kohn says, when people say, Thanks,
Guy Stephens:and Alfie is one of my heroes.
Chazz Lewis:We should ask works to do what?
Guy Stephens:Right, exactly, exactly, absolutely agree with you? Well, I was going to ask you, if you had a final word, I guess that that will be the final word. If you hang on for one second, we're going to end up here. But I want to keep you on just after we get off for a second. And I just want to thank you for joining us for this conversation today. It seems like it didn't take too long for us to get this. Get this all the books that I'm so glad we did. This has been a great conversation. I really enjoyed talking to you. I love the work you're doing. I mean, you were talking about change in leadership, and you know, the things that you're doing are making a difference, you know, and, you know, I really appreciate all the work that you're focused on. So we've had a great, great interaction, a lot of people were weighing in. Thank you for all those that joined us. Please, again, share this with others that might enjoy it. And thank you so much for joining us jazz you stick around for one second, and I'll just say goodbye to everybody that's tuning in.
Chazz Lewis:Bye, everyone. All right, bye bye. I'm here. I'm just I'm just gonna stop
