AASR Live

Meet the author and illustrators: Intentional Neuroplasticity Dr. Lori Desautels

December 20, 2022 Season 3 Episode 28
AASR Live
Meet the author and illustrators: Intentional Neuroplasticity Dr. Lori Desautels
Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Lori Desautels, has been an Assistant Professor at Butler University since 2016 where she teaches both undergraduate and graduate programs in the College of Education. She was also an Assistant Professor at Marian University in Indianapolis for 8 years where she founded the Educational Neuroscience Symposium. Currently, the Symposium is in its 10th year, and now sponsored by Butler University College of Education. Through these conferences and symposiums, educators, parents and the community learn deeply about how adversity, trauma and resiliency impact the developing nervous system, helping our students to feel a sense of autonomy and purpose along with social, emotional and cognitive well-being. Because of her work, Dr. Desautels has been able to attract the foremost experts in the fields of developmental, relational and the social neurosciences which significantly grow the conference each year.

Dr. Desautels has created a nine-hour graduate certification at Butler University in Applied Educational Neuroscience / Brain and Trauma. This certification has grown from six graduates in its pilot year in 2016, to over 400 graduate students in its now 7th cohort. The certification is open to students around the world as it has transformed into a virtual platform and format. The Applied Educational Neuroscience Certificate, created by Dr. Desautels in 2016, is specifically designed to meet the needs of educators, counselors, and administrators who work beside children and adolescents who have, and are, experiencing adversity and trauma.

Dr. Desautels’ passion is engaging her students through the application of neuroscience as it applies to attachment, regulation, educator brain state, and teaching students and staff about their neuro-anatomy thus integrating Mind Brain Teaching, learning principles and strategies into her coursework at Butler. Dr. Desautels has conducted brain institutes and workshops throughout the United States, Canada, Costa Rica and Dubai on Mind Brain Teaching and Learning. She has created webinars for educators, clinicians, and administrators illustrating how educators and students alike must understand their neuroanatomy to regulate behavior and calm the brain.

Dr. Desautels graduated with a BS in Special Education from Butler University, an MS in counseling education from Indiana University and earned her Ph.D. in philosophy with an emphasis in early adolescence/ thought formation from Indiana University and American Institute of Holistic Theology. Dr. Desautels resides in Indianapolis, Indiana with her husband, Michael. She has three grown children, Andrew, Sarah and Regan and four rescue fur babies.

Regan Desautels, an artist from Indiana, USA, and Alexis Cruz Gómez, an artist from Hidalgo, México, are a creative team that works together on illustrations, woodburnings, murals. Regan has worked as an independent artist and muralist in Chicago and Hidalgo. Alexis has worked as a graphic designer for some local organizations like Saberes Colectivas (Collective Wisdoms), and ALDIMEX - Alianza Indígena Para el Desarrollo de México (Indigenous Alliance for the Development of Mexico), as well as international organizations like Slow Food. The creative team has most recently worked on graphics for Dr Stephen Porges and Seth Porges' new book and illustrated Dr. Lori Desautels' new book, "Intentional Neuroplasticity." Their development together and separate as artists has taught them to never stop learning from their work, and has shown them the magic that comes from collaborating with their clients and breathing life and color into their words and stories. 

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Guy Stephens:

Well, hello and welcome and you are not mistaken. We're here twice in one week, this doesn't usually happen. We have a another really amazing live event today. Of course, my name is Guy Stevens, I'm the founder and executive director of the alliance against seclusion restraint. For those of you that are not familiar with our organization, our organization was started about three and a half years ago, began around the issue of restraint. Seclusion happening in schools across the country, has since then really expanded into not just restraint, seclusion, but very often all the things that are being done to and happen to children that are very often having a difficult time in schools and other settings across the nation. We're a big believer of, you know, really kind of changing the model to be trauma informed, and neuroscience aligned and collaborative and relationship driven. So we do a lot of work, both with legislation and with education. And that's why we do these events, these live events are a great opportunity to talk about ways that we can do things better. They're also a fantastic opportunity to meet people and hear about their work, which is really what we're going to do today, I have a couple of special guests who will be joining me and I'm going to do their introductions here in a moment. But we have Dr. Laurie estatales, who will be on here joining us today, as well as her daughter, Regan. And we also have Alexis, who is Reagan's fiancee, and we're gonna be talking about the collaboration that all of them had, in creating this new book, this book that happens to be sitting here beside me, which some of you have probably already heard about, and maybe even pre ordered. But it's a book called intentional neuroplasticity, moving our nervous systems and educational systems toward post traumatic growth. And it's fantastic. And I can tell you that from firsthand experience, although it's not yet widely available, it is I have had an opportunity to read it. And it's absolutely fantastic. So we're going to be having a conversation today, I do want to let you know, as always, in any of you that have been watching for a while know, these are being recorded, we put these out live on Facebook, on YouTube, on LinkedIn, we also put it out as an audio podcast. So if you're not able to catch the whole thing, right now, you can go back and watch it or listen to it later. And of course, the other thing we encourage you to do is share these events with fellow, you know, educators, with fellow parents with, with anybody that you're working with that, you know, we're working to move kind of in different directions. So all that said, let's get to the good stuff. We've got a really exciting program on tap for the day. And I'm going to begin by introducing our special guests. Now I'll begin by introducing Dr. Laurie estatales. And telling you a little bit about her background. Now, of course, my first assumption is if you've been watching these for awhile, you know, Dr. Laurie, Dr. Laurie has actually been our most frequent guests here on our live events. And I don't know how many we have up to now probably six or seven, you know, one of us or the other have an idea all the time about things that we can share. But let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Details. Of course, I assume that everybody knows who you are in your work, but just to, you know, make people aware that might not be aware of who you are. You've been an assistant professor at Butler University since about 2016. And you teach both undergraduate and graduate programs in the College of Education. You were also an assistant professor at Marian University in the Minneapolis for eight years, where you founded the Educational Neuroscience symposium, which is really exciting. Currently, this opposing has been its 10th year now sponsored by Butler University College, and through these conferences and symposiums, you know, educators and parents, and the community learn about how deeply adversity trauma and resilience, impact developing nervous systems. So you do a lot of work around kind of social, emotional, cognitive well being. Of course, your work has been, you know, shared in many ways, which we'll talk about. But you also have this amazing certification program at Butler University, one that I talk about frequently. And as you know, we often have students that have been through your program. So you have this amazing program and applied Educational Neuroscience, brain and trauma that has grown from a pilot year in 2016, to over 400 graduate students. Now, in the seventh cohort, I think that might be still be right. But every year you're getting more and more. And of course, it's open to people around the world. And I've actually met people around the world that have been part of your cohorts from New Zealand to, you know, of course, the United States, Canada, all throughout the world. But this is a really amazing program that you offer. And one of the things that I've found is that all the people that are a part of your cohorts. I've yet to find one that hasn't been amazing, Laurie, and that probably doesn't surprise you. I don't you know, suddenly And our guests yesterday, Robert belts and like, you know, I don't know if it's the people that are attracted to the program or what happens during the program, but amazing people and the work that you're doing is really having a tremendous amount of impact. Of course, you do a lot of presentation video a lot on your website, revelations in education.com. Your first book was How may I serve you revelations and education, which you have done with Michael McKnight, who was another previous guest here on the show, somebody that I love and think very highly of as well. Of course, you had the book, the eyes are never quiet, in 2018, rewiring our perceptions of discipline. Of course, one of my my very favorite books, you know, has been this connections over compliance book. And again, I was very fortunate to be able to read this as you were finishing the book. And the title alone was enough to really, you know, kind of hit me in place that I'm like, Yes, that's exactly what we're trying to get to. And of course, we are here today to talk about your your latest work, which is intentional neuroplasticity. And, you know, again, I don't know how you do all that you do, Lori, and I know that at times I've said, Laurie, do you ever rest, you know, you, you need to take, and you'll tell me what I'm taking today off, you know, and that's about all. But you know, this work that you're doing is really, really amazing. And I have a tremendous amount of admiration and respect for all that you do and the changes that you're making. So Laurie, let me begin by welcoming you. And I'm sure I can read probably two more pages of your credentials and bios, if I left anything out, I apologize. But it's great to have you here.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

I just can't thank you enough. And I as I share this is a gift to our family to be able to share this book, and to know how closely Alexis and Regan and I work together. It was really a process that I'm gonna get teary. I mean, it's just such an honor as a mom to be with Reagan, and in my eyes. He's already my son. So it's just such a gift. I'm just thank you. Thank you for this.

Guy Stephens:

Thank you. We're really excited to have you. And I'm going to share another little story with you in a minute. But before I do, let me go ahead and introduce Reagan and Alexis, and give you a little bit of background on that as well. And I you know, I hear you. I mean, what a tremendous, amazing process to go through to have this opportunity. And I'm so excited, you know, months ago, I remember talking to you about this and you're like, well, guy, I want you to be the first interview I do. And I'm like, well, that's amazing. Let's do it. And so excited to be here to talk about this work and to talk about all the amazing things you're doing. And fantastic. So Regan Regan disavows is an artist from Indiana, and Alexi Cruz Gomez, am I getting proper okay. And artists from Hidalgo, Mexico, okay. And help me out if I get the southern wrong here. And you guys are really a creative team that works together on illustrations woodburning murals, Regan has worked as an independent artist and muralist in Chicago and had had that go, I'm sorry for not doing well here. Alexis has worked as a graphic designer for some local organizations like Sabres collectiveness you're gonna have to help me out here and L max. And I'm not going to try to read all of that but if you if you could, Regan help me out here with that stands for what?

Regan Desautels:

Yeah, all the Max. Max. Okay. Eliane Sadie. Alex, he's gonna scare you that I'm poking America. I don't remember exactly but Alexis does. que que es le Max

Unknown:

are the answer. Indigena Mexico MediCal Alliance in Mexico.

Guy Stephens:

Gotcha. Gotcha. Great. And I appreciate that. As well as international organizations like slow food. The creative team has most recently worked on graphics for Dr. Steven Porges, who we're all fans up here and have talked to Steven Porges as well. And Seth Porges. His new book and illustrated Dr. Laurie disavows new book intentional neuroplasticity, which we're here to talk about today. And their development together as and separate as artists has taught them to never stop learning from their work. And I think that's a lesson for all of us, and has shown them the magic that comes from collaborating with their clients and breathing life into color and their words and stories. Regan and Alexis, it is so nice to have you both here today. One of the things that as as the book was coming to life, and that's probably the best way to put it as the book was coming to life. I know that Laurie was occasionally sharing some of the illustrations and the feel that it Begin to bring into this work is absolutely amazing. I'm a very visual person myself. And as I've, you know, kind of flipped through the book, one of the first things that really catches my attention has been these illustrations. So we're going to talk a lot today about the book. And I'm going to talk specifically with you and Alexis, Alexis about the illustrations as well. But before I do, again, thank you both so much for being here today. It's really an honor to have you here.

Unknown:

I thank you, thank you so much. And my mom, my mom said it, but it is a huge gift. And it's our pleasure that I thank you for opening up this space. And including us in this conversation too. It just, it means a lot.

Guy Stephens:

And absolutely, it's an honor all the way around, you know, I've had the opportunity actually had the opportunity to meet you previously. And of course, I have met your your father, Michael as well. And you are all wonderful people. It is a pleasure. I like these as well. I've heard a number of really, and you can share this with him. But a number of amazing things about him recently had the opportunity to talk to Laurie and Michael and I can just tell you that the the positivity was overflowing and you know, it's great to have you both here. And of course, what I didn't mention or may have mentioned very briefly, is that Alexei is is your fiancee. So you know as Laurie said, you know it really is about the family here so great to have you here both.

Unknown:

Thank you so much, guys. I'll just do a quick quick translation. This was the person neuroma. This was present nosotros en la que agregar mucho el libro abrin de mucho de solamente en la vida ecologically agregar la Holika ASEAN were mucho the momento la like experiencia de Layer II a specific Amethyst over 80k received medical Nova locum Yama, K eyes, which are muchas cosas muy Lindas. My when I saw roti, I creatively creative I maintain it Amin como como como persona Thank you very much.

Guy Stephens:

She says. And I appreciate your your translation there. This is so fantastic to be able to do this. Now, Alexis, is currently in Mexico. Is that right? Yeah. So it's always amazing to be able to do these things with people from across the world. So I assume you're there in Indiana, and here I am in Maryland, on the east coast. And of course, one of the things that Laurie I know, you know, well, is that we actually have people from all over the world that join on to these live events. And I typically tell people, as we're beginning that, you know, we get people from New Zealand and Australia, United Kingdom, Canada, you know, the United States, of course, but really do get people from all over the world. And on that note, I'm going to remind people that are watching now, let us know who you are and where you're from. I know we've got quite a few people that are on live with us at the moment. So it's always great to see in the comments where people are from and kind of who they're who they are. I know there's a lot of excitement about this new book. We had anticipated that was going to go on preorder today. And it started on preorder. It looks like yesterday, but I saw the excitement. You know, people are like ordered ordered, you know, as you share that this is now available. And we'll try to get those links available in the chat as well. So the book is currently available for preorder. And what was the date that that's going to be actually begin shipping? Do you know, Laurie?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

I believe January 24 2020.

Guy Stephens:

Okay, Won't be long, it won't be long at all. And folks will be able to get their hands on the new book. And of course, I am honored to have had the opportunity to read an advanced copy and to provide some some of my, you know, thoughts and praise for this book. I mean, as I said before, you know, your previous works have always been really, really inspiring. So I want to get to talk a little bit generally about the book. And then I want to pivot into talking about the illustrations and the art. And then Laurie, we'll come back to talking more about kind of the content. But but just tell me briefly, Laura, you know, it wasn't long ago that your your last book, cover your last book, connections over compliance came out. And knowing the schedule and the work that you were doing non stop. It's almost hard to imagine how you could have written another book since then. But what was the driving force behind this book? What was the reason that you wanted to bring this to life and get this out to people?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

So I think, I think that the lived experience is being in the school. So as soon as connections over compliance was written, as you know, you know, my work is back in the classroom. So here I am, you know, in the second and third year of the pandemic, in a large middle School, and then working with more and more districts across the world. And I was so moved and inspired by not only what educators and communities were understanding and grasping, but they were wanting now what they were wanting, we understand we're understanding how trauma impacts the nervous system. But now what do we do, we're ready to move forward. And so as I worked with seventh grade students and my team at Belzer, and continue to meet with administrators, and teachers, and parents and communities, I began to really think about, you know, the that not only is trauma held in the body, but resiliency is held in the body. And this is a significant piece of this that I think we're ready to move towards. So I think that was the inspiration. And I think I was able to really write this book as I was learning, which is such a gift. And then Dr. Porges, at the same time, asked me to create modules for educators to integrate polyvagal theory into our classrooms and schools. So it all collided in the most, you know, complex, but yet perfect way.

Guy Stephens:

Gotcha. And, you know, I know and I'm probably didn't go all over all of this in your, your bio, but you spent a number of years in the classroom. But not only did you spend a number of years in classroom, you still are in the classroom and working with and alongside educators. And as one of your educators you work with one time put it Laurie Kirkland, she said, You know what I love about Dr. Lurie, she's not just up in some ivory tower, trying to give us advice. But you know, she's in the classroom. She's there working with us. So can you tell us a little bit about kind of your background and education and kind of what you're doing today in the classroom.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

So it's, I think, this is my ninth year back in the classroom. So I'm a former special education teacher. And I taught children with the classification of emotionally disturbed, which is also known as behavior disordered, emotionally impaired. And then I was so in this is so interesting, I was so perplexed that these children were being labeled emotionally disturbed, and I didn't believe it, it didn't go, it didn't feel right to my nervous system at the time that I left teaching after seven years in the classroom in a self contained classroom. And my colleague, and I opened up Indianapolis Counseling Center and began working with the family system of children that had that label of emotionally disturbed behavior disordered, because we really wanted to get underneath the behavior, you know, even in the late 80s, early 90s. So that that was, and then as a former school counselor, you know, it just I had another angle, I had another perspective, to really see and to start looking at what is underneath these behaviors that we keep labeling, classifying and ruling?

Guy Stephens:

Yeah, yeah. Would you share it there, you know, one of the things that always comes to my mind, I'm not a big fan of the ED label that is so prevalent out there. And, you know, it's just really interesting that, you know, kind of, that's where you started. And, you know, kind of subsequently though, of course, you know, you began to work with the universities began to, you know, present these ideas and develop these ideas for books. But, you know, you've continued working in the classroom, and work in the classroom on a regular basis. And, again, having talked with some of the educators and some of the teams of people that you've worked with, I think that's important. I mean, one of the things I really admire about you, is, you know, what you say, and what you say about going back into the classroom, and learning and sharing and growing, and Reagan, you said something very similar in your bio, but it was really that, you know, through these experiences that you're having, that you're you're, you're working to help and, you know, provide things to help educators in these difficult times, but you're also learning from them alongside them, and bringing more lessons and ideas into the work as it moves forward. And that's such an important thing. It's easy for you know, it's easy to to come from an outside perspective with all the things that people should do, but to be there in these times working with people is so important and I really love that about your work. So I'm going to pivot here a little bit and just asked you and then we're going to talk a bit about the the artwork and then come back to you with a lot of questions about the book. But as this book begin to develop, at what point in the process for you real lies or have this idea that, you know, illustrations and artwork and getting these visuals into the book. Were going to be a process and and how did you come to that? You know, and I know Reagan had done it in the past, but how did you come to that point where you're like, oh, this has got to be a part of this work?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Wow. I'm just even trying to think back it this book feels and felt like the culmination of the work that we had been doing. And Reagan has been sitting beside me in this work helping me to understand you know, how equity and the disproportionality of so many of our students has been such a critical factor in this work. And that as we look at intentional neuroplasticity, we actually through conversations FaceTiming, for hours at a time, you know, began to think about images that aligned with this work that is about post traumatic growth, not only individually but collectively as a school as a, as a community. Do you is there anything you want to add to that, um, well,

Unknown:

so many people love and no, my mom and I have just the biggest honor and gift in the world to be her daughter, which we're going to this is probably going to happen throughout the interview of us just getting silly tears. But because of that, she's she's one of my favorite writers. She is my favorite writer. And I've gotten to see my mom's poetry too, for before she wrote her books, but when I was reading it, she was sending me chapters at a time. And when I started reading the introduction, I just I felt her words on the page, I felt her poetry, even through the introduction when she was talking about what this book means to her personally. Especially that image that is the quote for the introduction illustration that we made. I'm talking about her sitting with herself with her feelings, and her feelings, feeling like leaves swirling around her on a cold afternoon. And that was nice. This, this needs this needs, pictures, the pictures already there in the words, but Alexis and I would be the team to, to add those pictures that we had seen Alexis and I had seen some examples of books that had done similar things. We didn't know exactly what that challenge would look like before we're starting. But that kind of planted the seed. But really, it was it was looking at the poetry that's also in this book.

Guy Stephens:

You know, it's interesting. You know, we, you and I, Reagan had the opportunity to meet some time ago, and and I'm gonna go with recollection, I may be wrong. But was was your background in social? Social justice? Or what was your background in academically?

Unknown:

Yeah, my background is Spanish and psychology. But my minors were in peace, justice and conflicts.

Guy Stephens:

Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. That's what I was recalling here. And it's so interesting, because that intersection, even there between your work and your mother's work, and it sounds like, you know, that's kind of what came to life here. And kind of getting to the point where, you know, the illustrations and whatnot came to mind. So what I'm going to do here, and I'm going to share my screen in a second. And I want to bring up some of the illustrations that you created, that you and Alexius created for this book, and talk a little bit about them. But I just think it's so beautiful, that the collaboration that you have had all of you, you know, as a as a family working on this, you know, I was sharing with you before we started this, but you know, I met Laurie and Virginia recently, and I had my daughter with me. And my daughter is also very interested in art. Although she was also interested in you, she's told me before this No lie that she's interested in either neuroscience or psychology. So, you know, Laurie at some point, you know, you might need to, you know, do some advising there for her. But she's also an avid drawler. And illustrator. And you know, I'd gotten up to go to the restroom at one point next, I know I come back and Audrey showing Laurie all the all her drawings. And as you mentioned, she Laurie was showing some of the work that you were working on. And as as the Audrey for her input my 13 year old daughter, and Audrey shared input in then you were sharing with me earlier, like, what we actually use that input it was really helpful. So I love that connection. I was thinking to myself ahead of this event today. Oh, wow. I mean, how much would I let you know, I mean, not that this isn't my immediate path, but I'd love to have my daughter help this. You know what an amazing thing you've done. So I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen here. So bear with me for a second. And I'm going to pull up my screen and this is actually going to be coming from your one of your portfolio sites that you have, and I can share these links with folks in the chat as well. But what I wanted to do was get to some of the artwork that is included in the book because it really is. It really is amazing. You know, the the artwork that you've included here and again, when I think about Lori's work, and I think about thoughts and feelings and emotions and touch points, and, and all of this, the art is so appropriate and intentional for this book that, you know, it really, I think is adds so much to it. And this was the piece that you were talking about initially. And I wonder if you might be able to share with our audience hear a little bit about, you know, kind of, you know, you mentioned the, you know, the words in the poetry, but a little bit about how all this came to be. And it looks like Alexis had dropped off briefly, but we'll bring him back on here. There we go. So I'll let you read and if you want to start but then if you want to bring Alexa into the conversation and kind of get some reflection from him as well, I would love that.

Unknown:

Yeah, of course. I'll just do a quick little translation break so he can process the question while I while I answer. q&a subid como como yoga most, gather user assume groups are most con kanessa primera lives recien que que somos que if we're going to spend some Mentos mudras in besar. Most go, you're most lucky kind of stevia. So this, this was the first illustration that we created. And I think it was one of those moments where as we were working on it, we had that kind of click moment. Because I read the quote to Alexis or we translated we were what we did for every chapter, we read the chapter, picked out quotes. And then we talked about which quote, kind of jumped off the page to us, which one could we really see an image with. And then once we chose the quote, we did not look at each other's paper. And we we drew separately, to see what each person was going to create. And so the my kind of initial image was my mom, with leaves swirling around her. And Alexei says was the spark. And Alexei says was, that was what stood out to him. So what while the leafs stood out to me and this image of my mom, he thought about the spark of change that is produced and just continues to grow. And when we brought them together, we're like, oh, my gosh, well, this is the perfect combination of images. And then we worked on how to integrate them. Once we started putting the illustrations online, we started to find this style that wove work between all of the illustrations, especially with these white lines that almost have this. And that spiritual element. But this unifying element this, like these could be a hands of ancestors in the past voices of our our families, we know that we have not only intergenerational trauma, but intergenerational resilience. And I love how the kind of those lines transport to that tree and we see where the roots become part of the leaf.

Guy Stephens:

You know, what I really love about this is the creative process. So as a creative individual, it can be difficult sometimes, because you have a vision that might come to life. But very often you might be working with people like I want a picture of this. And the way you describe your process of like reading it and finding the pieces that resonated with you. It must have felt like a really great organic process to be able to kind of come up with these ideas. Rather than being told this is what we want to have a picture of. And I love that you were able to kind of both bring your elements into it. I'd love to hear a little bit about from Lexi's about, you know kind of what you know, and I know you shared with us a little bit about his inspiration but if he has anything more to add in terms of kind of his inspiration and working on this, see if he has called you to guide yourself I Blondo sobre como la cosa scripture? Sorry, our dog is out. We eat twice so occasionally you'll hear a squeaky toy so it's all good. We are very family friendly and very dog friendly. As I probably told Laurie before dogs are my favorite people to everybody but i like most dogs better than most people so never apologize for dog

Unknown:

of somebody Kamala who says whichever so real close so please pick up ecomo Bucha lever that William was Spencer so rione there is a no nose the whole ocular is a makin you know real kick ran was this. Use our lawns or nurseries processes to get a summer spent Samuel Samuel you Redmond Del Norte trabajar con Laurie he told processo en que pasa difficile sido muy facil trabajar con con la doctora la report can see the connection is there on top of he says it's been it's been an honor to get to work with my with my mom and even though it can it seems it can sound difficult or complicated he said it's all been easy just because of all of these interconnected points in in the in the work with isn't me kind of building off that in the work of us getting to read the texts read the book and seeing those connections with our own lives and what we make

Guy Stephens:

and of course you knew a lot about your mother's work probably over the years because she's your mother and probably knew a lot about what she's been doing. But a lot of this was probably new to Alexei is I'm curious and we'll go over a couple of more of the images here but I imagine that there's been I can only imagine the journey of going through this book this you know and you of course have the some of the foundations and exposure and experience and sounds like you've even been part I can imagine the kind of the conversations that the two of you might have that probably feed into a lot of what ends up you know kind of in the book and or or or other elsewise. Ask Alexei is a little bit about you know, this for him in terms of, you know, I mean, you know, illustrating things, you know, you know, there's so much depth to this, so I'm just kind of curious, what's that journey been like for him? And what really has stuck out with him about this journey and what he's learned about your mom's work?

Unknown:

Yeah, of course. He's like a laboratory profundidad and Caligula straussian e el saba que yo tengo la experiencia de Maria como yo my, a sav Soares de trabajo por mucho tiempo pero es es como Interlux Yano is our present by the way. I use soc. It is going to Libra II carousel where Qualis puntos as in the last ilustraciones Orlando el texto. Tomorrow and picado continue to mess with this. Okay and the needle impact. They must fourth in anti ecommerce flu year. Last year mistress Jonas

Alexis Cruz Gómez:

total tawassul mas que interessante is conoscimiento necessary yo yo tengo pasa MS DOS hermanos Spaniels in the narrowest introduction contesting for Marcian businesses necessary to eat connected totalmente con con Locusta explicando. capitolo for party the cafe fashion trabajar Yes, impressionante como se necessario SQL nacimiento para la de Castro network.

Unknown:

Saying that not only was it interesting reading it, but it was it was necessary. As he was reading the information, he realized how important and necessary was his two younger brothers. Luis is 10, no 11. And the sock is 16. And so thinking about their development, their growth with this lens, he was realizing how necessary the work was in that he says that made it easier.

Guy Stephens:

Yeah, and I mean, that's, I think true for all of us. And, you know, I only wish that Laurie, I wish you had been around, you know, 20 years ago writing this, and I could have learned some of these things sooner. But we all live like that, right? We all live in thinking, Gee, I wish I'd known this when. But at the same time, I think being on a journey like this where you're, you know, where you're continually learning and asking questions is so so important. That's fantastic. We'll go through a couple of images here, and then we'll shift gears a bit. But Reagan, would you tell me a little bit about this image here? And kind of how this came to be?

Unknown:

Uh huh. Good. It's good to have so rest I imagine e commerce system to some instances parrafin said the interest to the Ministry of London. Oh, how did we get to this one? I think it was another one of those collaborations where we both do separately, I think Alexis had this idea of the girl walking on a path that was made out of her own neurons. So kind of walking on this path inside her brain, but having it feel like that kind of overwhelming dark forest type of imagery. And then I put that kind of into a classroom. So I mean, each illustration that was my favorite part was getting to see that collaboration. But we want to get across the the worlds that our our students are bringing into the classroom with them as not even just a math almost like a lens for perceiving the world, some of the images that we have here. We don't know what a belt means to her if she's sensing the environment for danger to see if she's safe in an environment, what does about me and someone, a completely neutral stimulus for another person, maybe that has been painful. In the past. She's watching the clock. She's very vigilant about the clock, because certain hours can mean certain things, leaving the school day, we know that our transitions from the mornings, and in the afternoons of school days can be really, really difficult for our students. So just that,

Guy Stephens:

yeah, you say what's really interesting to me about this is that, you know, I find often in creative work, when you really dive in you, you become whether it be on intentionally or not, but you become kind of a subject matter expert. And Laurie, I've got to tell you, as I'm listening to Reagan talk about this, you know, she's got plenty of options in terms of what to do with life. She She's articulating this in a way that I could see her at some of the conferences that we attend, but you really do I mean, Reagan, you really do kind of dive into this. And of course, you know, you've had a lot of years to have conversations and to contribute, but I'm listening to you articulate this and, you know, the the understanding that you have of this is amazing. So I just wanted to comment.

Unknown:

I appreciate that so much. Thank you very much. Well, we've we've had a lot of time, lot practice.

Guy Stephens:

Absolutely. So I have another image that I wanted to well actually let me let me pause here on this one. Because there's there's a lot going on here and maybe Alexei is can provide some comment on this image.

Unknown:

I'll also see if any comments on the last one to give us adequate commentary or more in like your strategy on pasa or in St. Lucia. Gen for interessante como framos. This Rajendra, there's Bo Setosa and of course Bacchus became us in those the Equus con gala concert cape with a full genetic que puede conectar con Kanaka tomamos escribiendo para que todo travelclick robotic thinkers mecanismo he goes to a restaurant. Uh huh. Just in general about the experience. So many of these ideas came when in our conversations and as we were having our adventures or trips, or walking with our dog, and all of those kinds of bringing, bringing are just the thoughts that you have in conversations that you think about being kind of more informal, those transferring into our creative process.

Guy Stephens:

And of course, as we mentioned before, Lexi's is your fiancee, and of course, you know, working with a, you know, spouse, fiance, whoever it may be. That's not always a seamless process, right? Especially I would imagine creative endeavors, you know, creatives have very strong thoughts and feelings on things sometimes. But it sounds like you had such a collaborative process and are you continuing to collaborate on future work and future projects? I know you both kind of have your areas individually but are you continuing to collaborate on a lot of work like this

Unknown:

with the VCL Windows gone gone through a spousal Baraka a bit of basic a function was wavy and folders is almost when the Keepo yes operating system was continue on the Coronavirus. Brave dos windows. Oh, good. Okay. Mo thank God control of imaginary Keepo he, okay. He loves those polos. funciona most parents already work okay. proyecto que creo que la mas grande que la spedizione last time or secondo de nostra just familiars but a projector with less experience. Yes. Yeah, that we that we have found that match. Both will creatively as well, that we can be kind of polls for one another, which we found all the time we are very opposite and how we work. And that we're able to use that to support each other and overcoming differences. If I'm struggling on one thing, Alexis usually knows. And if he's struggling on something I can chime in, and that we've been able to pull from the knowledge that we both bring from our own families. I have the support and knowledge from from my family and Alexis has brought a lot of that knowledge from his family to into how we have gotten to to illustrate the book.

Guy Stephens:

That's right. And do you plan to do more collaborative projects like this in the future? Yes, we

Unknown:

would love to. We're continuing to work with my mom. We finished not so much illustrative work but graphic work for Dr. Steven Porges and Seth gorgeous, his new book. There's a possible children's book that we might be getting to collaborate on, which we're so excited about.

Guy Stephens:

That can be really exciting. Yeah. Wow. That's great. Well, I have one more image that I want to ask you about because this one really spoke to me and then we'll kind of shift gears and dive in deep with Laurie to talk about the book. But tell me a little bit about this and you know, again, you know, as I was flipping through the book initially, this is one that kind of grabbed me and I think I saw it shared on social before actually had a copy in Tell me a little bit about this. Maybe both you and Alexei just kind of weigh in.

Unknown:

I was looking at kids competitions so raise my hand nice occasion. Okay. importante para el cuando la yo creo que nos Concentra mas more turnkey connector. La Sita con la costa mascara Ando pas creo que nuestros pilaris Sun some motorists experience yes II connector who's the conductor? Conductor muestra handle tambien is important to mencionar que nuestros Polaris unseal nuestras aeromonas ecommerce ampersand sentences Miss hermanos termina todos wellway birthday the Capri is there's been some assessments on the sobre las pilaris common north of Santa Manos came to you especially with SI makin or Tamina Lima, Kenan pasado, tambien en todo para que estamos en los Manos in the support us in the suppose the races cuando thermostable, Kendra como que pensez this to a particular projector? correctamente. Yeah, um, so first is talking about really being guided by the text. This I think this is another passage that's really, that illustrates it, even just with the text alone. We love that idea. And throughout this whole chapter of building an S, and then

Guy Stephens:

I could pause for a second and read the text. And then I'll let you continue with the answer there. But since we're talking about the text, I think it probably makes sense to read it here. The Nest we build can nurture our young, the nest we build can make room for mistakes. The Nest we build can be relational. The Nest we build can hold collaboration, the nest we build can hold and sustain a new lens for discipline, the nest we build can hold unconditional love, and acceptance for ourselves and our children and youth. And I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I just I felt like yeah, these words are so important and the way they go together with the arts. So let me let me let you continue on, I apologize.

Unknown:

No, no, no need to apologize, thank you for taking that break to read to read the words because they are important. And then also saying how we've been guided through our brothers and sisters, also in family in general throughout this process, as kind of like the pillars of where we base our illustrations. And I think kind of referencing back to the other image that you had held up guy of the it's the little girl by the campfire, she's also this little girl from Chapter Two on the ship, you can see her ship kind of in the distance, so she's seeking refuge from that storm. And thinking about that presence of a sister, or Oregon can be a family member from the past to having that kind of like transience can be someone close or far. But having Alexei saying having our brothers and sisters guidance as well.

Guy Stephens:

It's beautiful. It's beautiful, you know, as I look at these images, you know, what comes to mind is how strongly they communicate alongside of the words. And, you know, I mean, I almost could imagine, and I'm gonna not describe this very well, but I'll do my best, but almost something that follows like a graphic novel format, where you have these images and these words, you know, so, you know, imagine a future possibility would it be great if you know you, you had this kind of, you know, resource out there. These are all amazing, and I really appreciate your work on all of this and you spending some time with us. I had agreed that we would kind of talk about the illustrations kind of early and we've actually covered a lot of ground here. But I would then shift into talking to Laurie about the text and let you break off as well and not not make you stay here for the whole interview and really want to tell you how much I appreciate it. I do want to share with both of you. As I mentioned we have people, some people let us know where They were from, and we had to give you a quick idea here. Somebody from Ohio. As I mentioned, we had somebody from the UK that was watching Iowa, Idaho, we have a good friend, Laurie Michael McKnight, who was watching the course in New Jersey. We had someone else here from Idaho. Another neighbor there in Indianapolis, our friend, Sandy Lerman. And of course, Angie, who was a previous cohort student is in India now, is she doing anything with you? There?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

She is. She's joining us this evening for

Guy Stephens:

an exciting Yeah, yeah, that's so exciting. And as she would say, that's amazing. So really excited to see that and just to let you know, also, you know, Michael wade into the artwork is amazing. I love how they collaborate on the art and what Laurie wrote. Very cool. Angie commented on your amazing creativity and synergy. And then Sandy left a comment here. Be and because I don't know Spanish, I will, Regan, if you would let you translate that for us. But it was it was two ellipses. So I'll let you share that with him.

Unknown:

Yeah, in English, I love all of the drawings. Thank you for sharing your talents.

Guy Stephens:

Gotcha. And I know Sandy has a son that is a artist as well. So Oh, and look, we have our friend, Rob from Michigan, Rob was on with us yesterday. So glad he's able to be here. So what I'm going to do at this point is again, thank you, Reagan. Thank you, Alexis, for joining us for this part of the live event. We're gonna shift into talking to Lori more about the book. But I greatly appreciate you know, the opportunity to talk to you about this and I'm so excited to see this work going out into the world and you know, the, the illustrations that you have worked on and taking those in with awards. I hope and I think you do that you both know that these things make a difference. And you know, people are going to look at the illustrations in the book. And the work that you've done is going to inspire and is going to make people curious so thank you for what you've done.

Unknown:

Guy thank you so much. Thank you for opening up this space in your platform my mom shared with me the the trailer for your documentary coming out and and knowing the important work that you do and and getting to share what what we're what we've been working on the way we've gotten to support my mom. It's just a gift and honor and our pleasure.

Guy Stephens:

Absolutely. And it's for me as well and joining us live from Mexico and I look forward to hopefully meeting you all someday in person and I'd love to and I'm going to put the link here in the chat for your website as well. You know, but I'd love to explore some of your their work and I certainly want encourage Do we have a website here for Alexei as well? If you do share that with me. Maybe if you can send me a little private chat with that address. I'll put that in our notes as well.

Unknown:

Yes, of course I will do that right now. ASAP IBC. You know we just gracias por todo que se trocaire Samos in case someone's colaborado asynchrony lemon importante e al Raha care as control we country we're like super important did Amin II gracias por bro nearness. There's the the Yang in New Mexico. Guy. Guys, thank you so much. Sorry about my English not so well. So thank you for your battens. And it's a pleasure. And Laurie, I am really, you know, I am thankful for this opportunity for take our job with Ray. And let's do this. Great.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Last piece. I love you. Thank you.

Guy Stephens:

Thank you so much. So Laurie, you're still on the hook. So I'm going to keep you here. Alexei is hope. Hope to see you again. And I'll let you go. And Reagan, if you would send me that link when you get a chance. I'd appreciate it. But I will let you go join your father and you can watch the rest of this hopefully live.

Unknown:

All right, I'll send it to you. You can you can share it. Alright.

Guy Stephens:

Absolutely. Thank you. This has been a lot of fun. So Laurie, you know, as we discussed earlier, I want to dive into the book a bit. But I really wanted to take that opportunity to kind of understand not only the creative process behind it, but to really, you know, shine a light on the amazing work that Reagan and Alexius did in bringing this book to life. You know, your your work is amazing. And these, you know these illustrations again, you know, I can see these as large illustrations hanging on walls in schools. And maybe we can figure out a way to make that happen somewhere.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

When I tell you, I want to share this, all of the illustrations that you shared in the book it, they're all QR coded. So when you have the book, you just literally put it on your phone. And it takes you to the illustrations and they are available to print. They're available, just even look at and they're available to even create posters and prints. Wow.

Guy Stephens:

So you have those freely available for people to print or whatever. Right. Wow, that is extremely generous. And I think I would certainly encourage our educators and we have a lot of them watching to think about that. That'd be fantastic. So let's shift gears a bit and you know, talk a bit more about this book. We started off, you know, by talking about kind of the the inspiration behind it. But I want to start off at a really basic level. Intentional neuroplasticity. So intentional. I'm with you, neuroplasticity, I'm with you. But let's assume that not everyone is aware of kind of what the idea of neuroplasticity is. So what is neuroplasticity? And why is it so important for this work that you put out here.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

So it really can be kind of a trendy word, and it can be misunderstood. But I really pulled from the research of Dr. Norman Deutsch, I looked at the research on plasticity from University of British Columbia, and really looked at MIT's definition. So I really want it to be very well researched in defining plasticity, neuroplasticity. So neuroplasticity really is, those are the experiences that structurally and functionally change the nervous system, not just the brain. And I want to be very clear, and therapist, Deb Dana talks about this, not only does our brain have plasticity, but our nervous system has plasticity. So with every experience, our nervous system changes structurally and functionally, we all have plasticity, and we use it every day. And most of us use it by default. Meaning we have habits, you know, we have routines we get up in the morning, you know, we have, you know, we go to our coffee, we look at our phones, we eat certain foods all the time, you know, we we bite our nails, you know, we have these habits that have become practiced with repetition. So they become hardwired. But intentional plasticity is what Dan Siegel talks about, you know, it's with a focus and with attunement, and awareness that we can begin to build circuitry throughout the nervous system based on the experiences we desire. And so when I began thinking about okay, we we are beginning to learn about adverse childhood experiences. And we're learning to understand how adverse communities can impact the developing nervous systems of our children and youth. But now, what as we began the show today, so as we think about intentional neuroplasticity, this is a superpower for us as human beings. And we share this with our children, you know, I share this with second grade, third grade, fourth grade, you know, we talk about it as our superpower, that wherever you are placing your attention, you know, wherever you are focusing, that feeling gets stronger, that thought becomes more prevalent, you get good at a skill, and even it changes the way that we can even look at behavior. So and I also want to think about as we think about intentional, neuroplasticity, I want to move away from always talking about individuals, I am seeing schools and districts carrying around collective nervous system states. And and so not only do we hold trauma and adversity in our bodies individually, but I see a third grade team that is that is really in a fight flight response or in an immobilized shutdown. Or I see an entire school that is functioning from a very shutdown, immobilized, traditionally known as a freeze response. So this book guy is really moving us into looking at collectively, our, you know, our schools, our districts, our organizations and our communities and, and how we individually contribute to nervous system states that impact our children and youth.

Guy Stephens:

So I want to I want to explore this a little bit more. And, you know, I'm going to give you my very simple understanding and then ask you to, to either tell me where I'm wrong or help me along the right way. But if we know that that trauma that adversity, that all of these things can affect a develop In brain can affect any brain and cause changes to happen in the brain. And of course, those changes that happen can lead to hyper vigilance, they can lead to, you know, issues with memory, they can lead to, you know, a lot of situations that often then result in distressed behaviors. The very often in environments like school that might lead to, you know, punitive discipline and of course, happened me further traumatizing. But if I if I understand neuroplasticity correctly, really what it is, is the hope right, that that these things that happen to us these things that happen to us these experiences that might result in trauma can can lead to changes that can make it more difficult, but the superpowers you mentioned of neuroplasticity is not necessarily about healing, per se, but it's about our brain can get rewired through being intentional and through the the amazing ability of that neuroplasticity, the brain to make new connections. So is that what you're saying with intentional neuroplasticity is that by by calling attention to by focusing on things that can help us that we can begin to make northmor neural connections that then make us then that's into the neuroplasticity? But can make us more resilient, we're better able to handle adversity trauma to be more resilient is would that be a simplified way of putting this or?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

No, I absolutely do. And I and I love how you can take that concept and share that. And really, you know, when we think about resiliency, it's in neuroplasticity, it's really about flexibility of the nervous system. You know, we don't ever get it done, or really get it, right. I mean, it's a process. And I don't want to define resiliency, because it's really not a thing or now, I really believe that that resiliency is a process. And it's really about, you know, awareness. And I just shared this morning, I was with a large school just this morning, my last presentation for two weeks. And I just said to everybody that the goal is not regulation, and I talked about this in the book, the goal is to be aware of your nervous system. That's, that is so hopeful. And that's where I want, you know, an administrator, you know, a school counselor, a therapist, a social worker, a mom, this, this book is for all of us to really become aware of how we're experiencing the body, and, and to become fluent in the language of the body. And this is something that, you know, when we can teach a five year old to recognize when their face gets hot, and their ears buzz, and their hands get warm, or their belly hurts, or their chest feels tight, or they can't get a deep breath, then then this is this is moving towards post traumatic growth, this is moving towards the flexibility of the nervous system and learning the language.

Guy Stephens:

You know, the word resilience sometimes gives me different thoughts. And one of one of the concerns that I always have around resilience is that we shouldn't take advantage of our resilience, meaning that we shouldn't look at resilience as a reason to do things to people, it shouldn't be done to people, right? We shouldn't say, Well, kids are resilient, so it's okay. But of course, you know, there is that that potential but you know, to to unlock that potential sometimes needs help and guidance and awareness. And that's what you're talking about is kind of bringing that. And of course, you know, what we really want to do is, is where can we lessen trauma, adversity, better support children, but but it really is, you know, because we do have a lot of a lot of, you know, when we look at schools, we have a lot of kids that are bringing in a lot of trauma, generational trauma, you know, trauma, poverty, trauma from a lot of our staff and our teachers have experienced a lot of traumatic trauma, we've we've all been through a lot of trauma in these last few years. So, you know, while again, you know, we don't want resilience to be the reason that, you know, that we continue to do things that we shouldn't be doing that, that superpowers you say it, if you begin to know and understand it, and that sounds like you know, from from what i've what I've read in the book, and what you've described, is, you know, you want it to move beyond that, yeah, we know these things are bad, we know these things are harmful into the now what so tell me a little bit more about the now what and and why that's important. And, you know, for for all of us in these times. So what what do you see as the focus of the now what in the book?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Well, so I feel like the focus and this these are the words of Rasma Medicham, who I quote frequently in this new book. He calls being having a disruption in a system or disrupting the system and math You portail talks about this a lot, is compassionate agitation. And so I am seeing the now what we're really looking at the adult nervous systems and leadership and a systemic change. But leadership is critical guy I am seeing in so many of our schools and districts, which is not a negative, I think the wound is open. And I think that we are seeing with the teacher shortage with this just fatigue, third or fourth, three and a half years and a pandemic. And just the overall exhaustion, I mean, really exhaustion from, you know, feeling that from our teachers, and administrators that this is the Now what really calls for schools, to really start having these authentic conversations within and it starts with leadership, it starts with leadership. And I'm not talking about just an administrator, I'm talking about top leadership. This is this is about the top leadership. And I, you know, it's just it's so important to really understand, we know that emotions are contagious. But we also know that our nervous systems have evolved for adaptation. And so I don't, you know, and what I mean by that is that we have when we feel felt and seen and heard, that changes the way we respond in our experiences. And so when I talk about now, what it's our top leadership, listening deeply, to the needs of a district, I just see a disconnect in almost every district I'm in right now. Meaning from top leadership, to the middle, you know, aspects of the leadership down to the teachers, you know, you can have a school with every educator on board. But if the leadership is not there, it's just going to be tremendously challenging to make the shifts into, we say, from states of protection into states of growth, that's that kind of moving on that continuum.

Guy Stephens:

So, you know, that's the million dollar question, which is kind of how we bring leadership along. But let me back that up with a little bit of a, a little bit of a story and kind of an observation. You know, when these have been difficult times, right? You, you were one of the first people I heard probably three years ago, articulate that, you know, when we get back after the pandemic, that these are going to be really tough times that we've all been through this additional adversity and trauma. And, unfortunately, you know, I mean, I hate to say, unfortunately, you were right, but unfortunately, you were right. They have been tough times. So what does that manifest that as well manifest as stress trauma behavior? You know, so we are seeing an increase maybe in behaviors in classrooms across the country, we are seeing less, you know, we're seeing problems in terms of teacher retention and staff turnover. But you know, when I look at these things that, you know, a 50,000 foot view, you know, what, I see a subpoena that's all connected. But what we often see in response to the issues is focused only on the issue. So, school discipline, what are we going to do? Well, we need to do something. So we're going to increase out of school suspensions, or expulsions, or referrals, or whatever they may be, which of course, isn't solving the problem, it's actually probably making Well, it is no probably, it is making the problem worse, when we use these punitive approaches, things are gonna get worse. When we think about teacher retention. You know, the thing that comes to mind to me is that if we're able to systemically make some of the changes that you and others advocate for these high level changes, we're going to end up with safer environments for the kids end up with safer environments for the staff, end up with better school environments for the administrators and retention will follow, and teacher satisfaction will follow. But there's such a tendency to drill down into the micro issue, and the bigger picture and your work. What I see is the big picture. And of course, you talked in that book about nest and I want to get into that as well. But But let me ask that first question, which is, how do we get administrators on board during these tough times when sometimes the gut reaction is to do more of what's not been working? I was in a meeting recently and I had administrator in that meeting, say something to the effect that we were talking about restraint and seclusion and a number of things but the administrator stuff at one point and said, Well, I want to address the the elephant in the room. And truth is these these kids, we only have them for so many days a year and we can't control what's happening to them outside of the classroom. And a lot of these kids are coming and the whole thing went on but the essence was almost like well, we give up on these kids because they have trauma elsewhere and I can't help but think them myself, you know, schools have kids for, you know, 10 months out of the year for majority of their waking time. We don't give up on people, we want to help them. And by helping them, we're gonna get them at a place, but we're up against schools that are doubling down on on punitive approaches are giving up on kids, which is heartbreaking. So how do we how do we get to that change at that high level that you're talking about?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Well, that is the million dollar question. And

Guy Stephens:

I prefaced it that way.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Yeah, so I, you know, I feel that we've got to start, first of all, looking at the discipline data. And the, I think my favorite chapter in this new book is, well, I don't know if I have a favorite, but I love chapter five, because I really talk about the power of storytelling. And in each of our autonomic nervous system states, we hold a story. And collectively we hold stories, and our discipline data holds a story of where we've been as a school, where we are, and then if we are authentic with each other, where we want to go. So we've got to begin to look at the data because it really does share the story. And, and when we think about, you know, how we start moving into the now what, with leadership, we've got to be informed about the science. And that's why I'm trying, you know, I'm just trying to get the science out there. You know, as educators, you know, we work with nervous systems, almost more than any other profession. And yet, we don't, we're not taught that in our pre service education. No, we are not administrators are not taught. And so this is this is new, this is burgeoning research. So I think we've got to look at the stories and and it really caused us to self reflect. And then and then to really have those hard discussions. This book is filled with questions. And we sometimes move away from questions because we want the quick fix, we want the algorithm we want the solution. And I've asked it in chapter five, when we take a deep dive into district discipline. When we look at systemic changes, there is a section in each so the hero's journey is, you know, Joseph Campbell's motto. So I take each individual through the hero's journey, and then I take the hero's journey into a collective story. So this is like a tangible activity that we can do as a school, you know, as a district. So, connections over compliance really was focused more on the individual nervous system. But you know, I think through this growth and through looking at system change, we've got to be able to have those hard discussions I just said to a school district this week, you can have all the professional development in the world. You know, you can bring in all the experts, and you need to have some mentoring, and we need the science. But the ultimate shift comes from within. And it comes from those hard discussions, and they're uncomfortable. That's why I love Rasma min comms definition of compassionate agitation, you know, moving us into some changes that feel very uncomfortable for for most of us.

Guy Stephens:

You mentioned Matthew portail. And, you know, you know, we talk sometimes about being disruptors. And, you know, we need, you know, we need disruptors and and not only do we need this representing outside, some of our kids are disruptors, and they're trying to change the system to respect that, you know, I often think that, you know, there's there's far deeper problems within the education system in that one of the primary focuses is about compliance. And we need to encourage, I mean, without disruptors, there's so many things in this world that we would be missing and, and you are a disrupter Matthews, a disrupter. But of course, we're doing this in a way to try to support and work with systems and try to bring people along. And hopefully the outcome is positive change. I mean, this is really important work. I want to remind people, because we're coming up to time here shortly, and I wouldn't be mindful of your time, but I want to remind people here, I know I'm dominating this conversation right now. With with questions, but if you have a question you'd like to ask about the new book, and of course, you've not had a chance to read it, but if you have a question that you would like to ask about the new book, feel free to put that in the chat. And I'll try to get through a couple questions before we end our segment today. But I wanted to ask you, Laurie do to talk a little bit of you know, one of the things that you talked about in the book that resonated with me it was this idea of nest and of course that last illustration that we looked at as well. Can you talk to me a little bit about this idea of nest and really what you're getting at with it Then of creating nest environments in schools.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

So, and again, I love the illustration that Alexis and Ragan created for this chapter. I studied bird nests over the summer and last spring and ridiculously So, and looked at all the materials that go into a nest and, and I actually have a nest right outside my office window, that's 12 months a year. I mean, these birds are in it constantly. And so when we think about a nest, I think about spaces that hold not just our children, but hold the adults, so they hold the family. And there are people and spaces that we are drawn to, just because they feel safe to us.

Guy Stephens:

Hey, Laurie, you're one of my safe people, you feel safe?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Yeah, thank you. And I just, you know, and so I, when I think about building the nest, it really is about building the space of self safety, where children and adults and adolescents where we all can share our authenticity freely, that we can tap into that deep identity that, that, you know, Zahra Hammond talks about, you know, getting just talking about our purpose and talking about, you know, what does equity mean for us? What does it feel like when we are misunderstood? It's really just a space where we can share without judgment that we can be validated that we can, you know, just just be and and it doesn't, it doesn't really, it's not about the things in the space, it's really about the energy or the synergy that creates that nest. And so we in that chapter, we talk about focused attention practices, we talk about nervous system aligned Bell work. So there are practices that contribute to nourishing the nest. But it really is about my, the work I do on myself. And when I walked down the hallway B and Belzer, two times a week I that's all I'm thinking about is what type of a nest am I going to create for my seventh grade students, students during advisory this afternoon?

Guy Stephens:

You know, I think about the the concept of what you're talking about when I think about, you know, we hear a lot the words mental health these days. And certainly these have been trying times and mental health is a critical issue. But as I think about the nest, you know, when when you have a safe place, a safe person is a place where you feel unconditionally loved and safe. You know, I think that is such an important thing for for everyone's mental health. So, you know, this whole concept of nests, I think, really resonates. It's not just about, you know, it's not just about, you know, doing discipline differently, it's about better supporting humans, based on what we know, one of the things I really love about your work, and you've reiterated today is the importance of the adult nervous system, the importance of the adult awareness. And, you know, it's interesting, because very often, a lot of our programs are really focused on the kid, you know, when a kid is having a hard time, you know, the kid needs to change that kid is a problem. You know, the kid who of course, has the least developed nervous system with the least amount of experiences. And, you know, again, that's very often where the focus is. But you know, your work, you always focus on the fact that, you know, understanding our brain and body and our nervous system is not just something that we want to teach the children which you do in your work, but we need to understand about ourselves as well. And again, getting to that well regulated nervous system, as adults. And being mindful of that, you know, through which we view kids is so critical. And again, it's such an important thing in a world that very often is just focused on the individual, just focus on the kid who is most often having a hard time, you know, not trying to give somebody a hard time not trying to do something personal. So I really appreciate that focus of all of your work. So I just want to look here quickly at our comments, and Anna, and is in New Zealand, as I recall. And you know, Anna, our kids are missing teachers, when we acknowledge our autonomic nervous system. So Anna was in your program a couple of cohorts ago, right? She was say, Megan said, We are the Eagles and I'm excited to read about the nest. Megan does some amazing work as well. Somebody that I actually met at Matthew Patel's event. Let's see. Michelle said my students experiences have been learning to fight teachers from a corner. Yeah, unfortunately. Michelle Oh, has experienced restraint, seclusion with her children. And again, you know, this is something that, you know, we talked about having safe places, you know, adults, unfortunately can also cause trauma, even when well intentioned, and you know, when you're making someone feel unsafe, you know, that leads to a lot of difficulty. Let's see a couple of other comments. Oh, okay. Linda, also in New Zealand. So I love when my New Zealand friends are here, because I feel really cool to say we've got people in New Zealand, you know, it's always sounds great. So Linda, of course, is a big proponent of the work of Bruce Perry, and, you know, works also with Anna. So people doing fantastic work we have here, Amy from Wisconsin family ties, just thank you for being such strong advocates, and talking about items that a lot of people won't, because it doesn't fit with their organization school, or they're just uncomfortable talking about it. And you're so right, you said this earlier, Laurie? You know, and I think about when I was in Nashville recently in Matthews conference, and he had something on the screen about, you know, uncomfortable versus unsafe, right, that sometimes, and having these discussions there, they can be uncomfortable. But you know, it's shouldn't be unsafe, but we need this sometimes, you know, push and really think about how to affect change. So it looks like a question here from Laura, I work with three and four year olds, how could I explain these concepts to this age group, I love the topic and strive to incorporate as much as I can. So what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Well, you know, this is really the perfect age to begin these discussions. And we use visual images, I bring in objects. So you know, when we talk about how we feel in our bodies, I'll bring in a pine cone, I might bring in a nail file, I might bring in a marble, you know, we talk about sensations. And we talk about smooth and edgy, and prickly and tight and tense and, you know, and so we begin to you know, talk about how our bellies feel, and, you know, when our hearts beat fast, so we have sensation, walls and sensation jars that I've talked about for a long time. So, you know, this is when you know, the nervous system has a lot of stickiness, and when those experiences are remembered, so it's it, this is the, this is the perfect time, you know, we we use rhythm and movement and, you know, sensation with our three and four year olds at St. Mary's early childhood centers here in Indianapolis. And actually, we had the directors go through the applied Educational Neuroscience cohort with us. Guy, I wanted to share something I had to I took notes from my own book before we came on, and, you know, we going back, you know, to the adult nervous system, I want to share this before we end today, when we talk about the nest, it's really holding, and I think we need to think it's holding another's experience. You know, it's, it's a place where we develop a relational window of tolerance, you know, we talk about individual windows of tolerance. So, you know, we know that sometimes when we're having an off day, our window of tolerance has, you know, it's close, it's, it's tiny, but we also hold a relational window of tolerance as a grade level as a school as a district. And so, when we can hold another's experience, that can create this, you know, this relational widening, this, this window of tolerance, that begins to help shape one another's nervous system, you know, and so, this is something that I talk a lot about, you know, in the book is shaping, and this, this, you know, this almost like a mutual aid, kind of serve and return, that we can create, when, you know, we are talking in, in really embodying co regulation. So, you know, our bodies again, I just, I get so excited we we have we hold resiliency, we don't hold just trauma. And, you know, and this is really, this is where we need to really begin to focus and to be attuned and intentional to the possibilities, that we're not even acknowledging at this point, individually or collectively.

Guy Stephens:

You know, I always love the word intentional, you know, especially in this context, because, you know, it really does take intent, it really does take, you know, let's be meaningful about what we're doing. I love that. Let me ask you this, and I got a couple more things and then we'll wrap up because I don't want to keep you forever. I know you always have a lot of things going on any any kind of you know, what is your hope for the book, you know, so as the book is getting out into the world, and hopefully people in fact, I know that coordinate behind the scenes has been sharing the link so that people can preorder the book. But what is your hope for the book? What are you hoping that because it's more about just putting the thoughts and ideas out. I know when you do work like this, it's really about bringing about change. So what are your hopes?

Dr. Lori Desautels:

So I, you know, my hope for this book is to really open up some hard discussions. And, and to provide, I feel like I have spent a year and a half researching the power of questions and the application of the research. So I really hope this book is really about setting the table for discussion for the power of questions, and for really taking a deeper dive into the collective nervous systems that we carry as communities that we carry as a school as a grade level, you know, as a department, and, and really understanding, you know, that this resiliency that we are capable of needs another, that's, you know, we, we don't develop this beautiful skill of emotional regulation, without 1000s of moments of CO regulation. And, you know, school is the de facto, I've always said that that's where our kids are, that's where our families are. And, and so we've been very busy the past 18 months, creating templates, which are in the back of this new book, this whole resource section in the back of this book is new. And, and they're QR coded, so that you can access those documents, print them out and begin to use them.

Guy Stephens:

So when somebody asks what I do, how do I get there, you've you've you've done that you're giving real world things that people can do. That's fantastic. Well, let me hit a couple more comments here. And then we'll wrap up. And oh, by the way, so that your chorus was the best study I've done in 34 years as a teacher. And based on all the things that I've heard from from others that have been through this, I have no doubt, Rob said it takes a tremendous energy to disrupt systems that no longer work. This work is so timely and impactful, I cannot wait to share it. So I know that your book will, once it gets out there really be getting shared around Laura, who asked the question earlier about three and four year olds that thinks I do similar things. And you've given me ideas for taking it further, I appreciate you and your work, and have another one here for Michelle, thank you for empowering families, individuals and teachers. So lots of positive feedback here from everybody. Laurie, I can't thank you enough, it's been, you know, I mean, such a pleasure to have gotten to know you gotten to work alongside of you, you know, the things that you're doing are, you know, really making a difference. And I know that you like me, it's not happening quickly enough. And there's more we want to do. But you know, this, this work that you've been doing through the books you've been writing, and this book will continue, have some good ones going the wrong way here to make a positive difference. So just want to thank you for you very often use the word gift. And I always want to kind of turn it back to you and say, you know, Laura, you are a gift to all of us, to teachers, the parents, the families, you know, I appreciate you today, not only sharing your work, but sharing with us, you know, Reagan and Alexis, you don't and the work that they did and bringing this to life, really, you know, really a lot of fun to talk to them and hear about their process and talk about how all these things came to be. I will share with people real quickly here. We did actually a little mini review of your your book, which we have online now. And at the bottom of it is also a link where people can go and preorder the book. So if you go to the Alliance website in seclusion.org, that's actually linked from the homepage right now. So I would encourage people to do that. Definitely, you know, preorder it and you know, there's nothing more exciting than getting preorder the day it comes out. So Laurie, thank you so much for all that you do. You know, I've had the privilege of meeting Reagan and your your husband as well Michael, who hopefully is watching right now. Tell Mike I look forward to seeing him again. And the kids love the dessert, by the way, and nobody else know what I'm talking about. But Reagan. So at any rate, you know, I'll just share a couple of final thank yous here. You know, Amy said thank you both. And I said thank you both for your amazing work. Our friend, Gregson. Tusi occupational therapist said you're both great gifts. Thank you, Greg. And likewise, you're out there doing amazing work. Megan, as are you. This can be a lonely journey. I needed this conversation. Megan, I'm glad to hear that. And you know, it's having Megan is another ally in this work and doing amazing work. So thank you so much. I'm looking forward to seeing the book out and in hands and I would encourage people again, not only to preorder but be ready to buy extra copies to share with you know, if you're a leader, a school leader, share with your staff if you're an educator, you know share with other edge caters if you're a parent, you know, share with others, the more we can do to share, the more we can come together, the more influence we can have an influence and train show. Laurie, if I can hug you right now I would. But thank you so much.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Thank you guys so much. And thank you everyone for the time today. Amazing. So, Yep,

Guy Stephens:

absolutely. And this will be available for people to go back and look at and, of course, I will send you all of the all of the links. And we will talk again, hopefully real soon. So Lori, thanks, everyone that was watching today. Thank you for your time. And I look forward to seeing you again. We have another program coming up in two weeks. And I look forward to seeing folks and so thank you all.

Dr. Lori Desautels:

Thank you guys.