Classroom Teacher to Social Emotional Learning Specialist: How to Create a Community of Safety and Belonging with Angelina Zara.
Angelina is Washington, DC educator with a philosophy rooted in trauma-responsive care, inclusion, and racial and social equity. She holds her Masters in Education from Trinity Washington University and completed her Certification in Applied Educational Neuroscience at Butler in 2020. Beginning in the 2022-2023 school year, Angie will hold the newly created title of Social Emotional Learning Specialist at her school. This is a brand new role within her school that Angie championed for school leaders to create. Through consistent modeling in her practice, advocacy, and shared research in trauma-responsive care, Angie is pioneering the position of SEL Specialist and trailblazing as a trauma-informed leader
Classroom Teacher to Social Emotional Learning Specialist: How to Create a Community of Safety and Belonging with Angelina Zara.
Angelina is Washington, DC educator with a philosophy rooted in trauma-responsive care, inclusion, and racial and social equity. She holds her Masters in Education from Trinity Washington University and completed her Certification in Applied Educational Neuroscience at Butler in 2020. Beginning in the 2022-2023 school year, Angie will hold the newly created title of Social Emotional Learning Specialist at her school. This is a brand new role within her school that Angie championed for school leaders to create. Through consistent modeling in her practice, advocacy, and shared research in trauma-responsive care, Angie is pioneering the position of SEL Specialist and trailblazing as a trauma-informed leader
Well hello and welcome I'm Guy Stephens with the alliance against seclusion restraint. And thank you for joining us for another alliance against seclusion and restraint live event. I am actually in a different place today, which if you usually are watching the show, you probably know well that I usually have the Alliance banner over my shoulder. And today I'm in a different place, I actually happen to be traveling. And I am in Virginia today in Winchester, Virginia. So I am working a little bit differently today not being in my usual space. But we are going to have a great show today. So I'm really excited to have you, for those of you that are not aware of the alliance against seclusion restraint was an organization that I started about three and a half years ago, the purpose of the organization is really raising awareness and helping to facilitate change around a lot of things that are being done to children, very often in the name of behavior, whether it's restraint, or seclusion or suspension, or expulsion, or even corporal punishment, we're really trying to shift away from the punitive things that are being done to kids into better ways of supporting children, and ultimately better ways of supporting teachers and staff as well. Ultimately, hopefully having an impact and ending the school to prison pipeline. These are things that we want to see change. And we do that both through legislative work, as well as through education, like this event that you're joining us for today. So with that said, let me tell you what we're gonna be doing today. As always, I get really excited about the guests that we have, because we have some amazing people that I've had the opportunity to get to meet and work with and have a ton of respect for and today is not going to that. Today, I have injuries, they're joining us for a special interview. And Angie is an educator, but so much more. And I'm gonna tell you a little bit about Angie here in a moment. I've had the privilege, I guess, on energy for a couple of years now. And we've collaborated on a couple of things. But I think you'll really enjoy today's discussion really gonna be kind of an interview format. And let's even get rid of that it's really going to be a discussion forum. And we're gonna have a talk and you all are invited to join in and ask questions or share any thoughts that you might have. As always, I want to point out that the session today is being recorded. So you'll be able to go back and look at it on YouTube, on Facebook on LinkedIn, or download it as an audio podcast, I do want to make you aware that you can put your questions and comments in the chat. So if you see the comment button over there, you can go ahead and put your comments that you might have. For now though, go ahead and introduce yourself in the chat. Tell us who you are and where you're from. It's always great to see where we have people joining us from and we'd love to hear about where you're joining us from today. So go ahead and tell us in the chat, who you are and where you're from. And let me introduce you now to our very special guests. I'm really excited to have Angie here today, of course is going to share a little bit about her journey from a teacher to a social emotional learning specialist. And Angie is somebody that well, for best way to put it has created positions that didn't even exist before in response to seeing needs, needs in the schools that she has been working in. And that's sometimes what it takes is it takes somebody to come in and change things and do things for the better. So ng is a DC based educator with a philosophy rooted in trauma, responsive care, inclusion, and racial and social equity. And she holds a Master's in Education from Trinity Washington University, and completed her certification in the applied Educational Neuroscience Program at Butler University in 2020. And that is I believe how we met was through the applied Educational Neuroscience program. I have the privilege of speaking to a couple of cohorts that have been through that program, and the privilege of meeting a number of amazing educators that have gone through that beginning of 20 to 23 school year, which would be now Angie has a new position and a new title as a social emotional learning specialist at her school. And this is a brand new role and one that she really championed for school leaders to create and you know, this work that she has been doing is really to have an impact and better support kids through consistent modeling and practice advocacy and shared research and trauma responsive care. She is a pioneer in the position of SEL specialists and a trailblazer as a trauma informed leader and someone that I am very lucky to know and have had a chance to work with ng it's so great to have you here today. And I just want to thank you for joining us.
Angie Zara:Thank you so much guy. I'm really excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Guy Stephens:Absolutely. And I just want to let people know that are already on the live stream to go ahead and tell us who you are and where you're joining us from. But I will mention already, Andrew there a couple of people, maybe even some, you know, like Dustin Springer from Kansas City. We know Dustin Dustin was here with us last time. We have Bri an advocate and parent from New Jersey friend here, Jennifer abinit. From Davis, California, we typically have people that are joining us from all around the world. It's not unusual that we have people from Australia, from New Zealand from the UK. So as you're getting on, if you're from one of those places, help help me show you that I'm not making this up. We really have people from from all over the place. And I see my friend Mickey joining us from Austin. So, Angie, thanks so much for making some time today. You know, as I mentioned, as we were doing your intro, I got to know you because you were involved in a applied Educational Neuroscience Program at Butler University, taught by somebody that we're both a huge fan of it, who told me by the way that she was traveling today, but she was excited about your presentation, and was going to try to jump on. And that's Dr. Laurie Desautels. For those that aren't familiar, Laurie is actually I think she has been our most frequent guest on our program, I think five or six times now, we've had Laurie or people that Laura's work with. Laurie is an educator and of course, a pioneer really in applied Educational Neuroscience teaches a complete program in applied Educational Neuroscience at Butler. And you know, one of the things I found through that program, aside from finding you is that the people that are going through that program are all amazing, all the people that I've met that have gone through that all are people that I think are pushing changes in education. So at any rate, with that said that as an intro, I just want people to kind of understand this, would you mind telling people because you know, you've had a lot of history, and we'll get to all of that. But that applied Educational Neuroscience program? Can you tell us a little bit about that, and what appealed to you about that program and how maybe it transformed your approach as an educator?
Angie Zara:Sure. So as many people in this network that I've come to get to know, quite heard about previously, and then got to know when this trauma informed network may know that once you start to understand trauma informed practices, especially in the context of education, something just clicks, and your eyes are open to just a brand new world of a different level of understanding responsiveness, and frankly, like strategies that you can just add into your toolkit as an educator. So as I, you know, immerse myself in the trauma network, I started seeking out higher higher education programs, I would say I found the trauma informed network in 2016, which was my second year in the classroom, when I had huge behaviors that I did not have the tools to respond to yet and could not find other leaders or advocates to help me. So I just started digging into the research myself and then 2019 through the trauma network, I was seeking master's programs to get maybe a master's in trauma informed education, things like that. And the Twitterverse just kind of opened my eyes and I somehow managed to someone referred me to Dr. Laurie or I saw her tweet somewhere. And I just asked her about her program and the neuroscience program. I had known that neuroscience is tied to the trauma community. I think, you know, soon into my trauma informed immersion, I read Dr. Bruce Perry's book, and you know, my life was changed even more. And so once I learned about the program, it just almost felt like the universe just kind of lined things up for you. And so once I started to learn about Dr. Laura's work I learned about the program and I read the description, I thought this is exactly what I'm looking for. Here's a built in community. Here's a trailblazing leader in the trauma network, who is facilitating these courses who created this program? And so, you know, it's almost like once your eyes continue to open, closing them is not an option. So that was kind of how I dug into the program and then it just took off from there. Like you said, every single cohort member or speaker that I met in that program just became a part of my network and my community In my professional community and it, you know, it just snowballed into a different level of momentum that I'm so grateful for. But ultimately, do I don't think I would have been able to create the position that I've created at my school without, you know, having the expertise that I gained from Dr. Lori's instruction, the program and the network that I had to empower, you know, when you're full of a network of innovative changemakers. You know, it helps the doubt subside.
Guy Stephens:So that's right. That's right. That's right. So so let me go back in time, a little bit more here. But before I do, I'm just gonna share a few more things. Here we have Shelly joining us from Iowa, former alternative, trauma informed educator. And now an advocate and mentor, love the connection of SEL and neuroscience, connecting with trauma informed, can't ask a question, and this might be a little ahead of us. But you know, I'll let you take a swing at it anyway. Does your classroom use a point and level system for all students? And of course, what I know is that you're not only you're no longer just the, you know, I don't say just a classroom teacher, you no longer really focus in the classroom, you're you're focused on different role, but thinking about, well, thinking about what I know about you and thinking about the work that you would have done, and then people that you're working with now, how would you respond to, you know, incentives, point level systems, things like that?
Angie Zara:Yeah, I mean, that's a great question that honestly has come up, you know, with the teachers that I work with at my school. So I work with students from pre K, so three through 10. So pre K through fourth grade is the are the grade levels that my lower school encompasses. And when it comes to classroom based incentive systems, my response is typically thinking about the goal that we're trying to achieve when it comes to student, pro social classroom behavior. And so what I think is really challenging sometimes when we think about how the school system was built, when we think about, you know, what we perceive or have been conditioned to think as is conducive to learning, which is typically, you know, very white Eurocentric, compliance driven behaviors. When I think of using a point system to reinforce those behaviors, it feels counterproductive to what is what I think what I know, my goal is as an educator, and what I assume other teachers and educators goal is, which is to co facilitate the independence and autonomy to create helpful functional members of a thriving society, right. And so in order to do that, we need to empower students and set up students with like, real. What's the word I'm looking for real, real skills, right. So like, we don't need compliance driven skills, we don't need a student to listen, and then hear a ding from ClassDojo. To know that, like, they are doing what they need to do in order to earn a specific response from their teacher or approval from their teacher. I do very much believe in like CO creating measurable goals as a community to create joy. So if we are thinking about reading stamina, and as a community, we're attempting to achieve 30 minutes of reading stamina through, you know, the through reading habits, which would be your eyes or on your book, maybe your whisper reading, maybe, you know, you're looking up while you're thinking. But but you know, so if we're exhibiting those specific behaviors, which are habits of readers, right, which is when they were that we would like leaders to do. And at the end of that goal, we get a great pizza party, and we get to like, you know, each go to the book and pick out a lot like a library or library book that we're really interested in. Those incentives make much more sense, because we're really thinking about specific goal setting, and like habits of learning as opposed to compliance driven behaviors. So
Guy Stephens:yeah, I'm with you. 110%. I mean, you know, we are very opposed the kind of thing appliance based approaches that are very prevalent. I mean, there's a lot of, you know, rewarding consequence driven, behavioral approaches that not only are ineffective for many kids, they can be harmful to a lot of kids as well, especially when we're talking about kids with a trauma history, kids with a disability disability. Kids who these Yeah, these may not be working for a couple more comments. And then I want to hit that where we was headed here. Shelly also said, I have a neuroscience background as well. Happy to see that happy to see more people getting more of a background in the neuroscience. I'm a firm believer and I think he probably would be too. I think a little bit of neuroscience goes a long way. If you begin to understand a little bit about how the brain works. It totally changes the way you look at a kid and The way you look at behavior, and I think that's such an important shift for people. Jennifer said, You cannot look back once you become knowledgeable about trauma. I have Leonard Webb 100 actually speaks about trauma informed care and the school to prison pipeline, and he is in Maryland. See behaviors come from many places, it's up to those around the individual to understand what's beneath the surface. Yeah, and then which is so very, very true. So a lot of a lot of people jumping in here with a lot of comments. But let me take you back in time for a second. How did you? How did you get into teaching? Did you always know you wanted to be a teacher? What? What got you to be any teacher? Or if there's a who, you know, tell us about that as well? How did you? How did you make that decision to take a road in education?
Angie Zara:Yes, so it's actually a really interesting story that's a definitely embodies a big part of my personal journey. I have personally experienced addiction, I am in recovery from alcohol, I'm almost eight years sober. So during my I've experienced severe mental health issues, severe depression, anxiety, which manifested into really poor coping strategies through alcoholism. And basically, as soon so I was living in the Midwest, I went to school in the Midwest, and I hit what's called, like your emotional rock bottom, in Chicago, which where I was living, and I ended up coming home to Washington, DC, where I live now. And entering a rehab and outpatient rehab for eight weeks. And within within week, four of my outpatient something again, the universe just pulls us in certain different ways. I remember learning about neuroplasticity for the first time in rehab, the brain's ability to rewire a part of my journey. Now, of course, I always say I'm living proof of neuroplasticity, given my sobriety. But something about being back in DC, it was almost like once I was able to be sober, and the clouds, you know, cleared, and I was able to kind of live within my true identity. Within a week or four weeks, I realized that my only purpose was to be in education. By the end of my outpatient program, or within, you know, within a year of my outpatient program, I was looking at master's programs for education, realizing that I want to teach kids in DC, it's just what I felt like, seemed like the only clear possibility for me, I don't think that there's anything else that I'm meant to do. So I kind of I don't want to say ended up being an educator, but just once the clouds cleared away, it just the universe just pointed me in the direction of my of my path that I was supposed to take.
Guy Stephens:You know, it's interesting. There was a time that, you know, I might have looked at that idea of the universe pointing us where it wants to a little more skeptically. But I can tell you that my life has changed. And I think the universe called me to be at a different direction. I spent 25 years in the environmental field, never planning to shift direction or to do something different. And, of course, you know, I had a personal experience with my son that led me to doing a lot of research and trying to understand what was happening in our schools and in our discipline systems, and you know, how they were impacting children. So I'm very much a believer now that the universe has told me where I need to be. And here I am. And I'm glad the universe appointed you in that direction, because I know you are an amazing and a very inspirational educator, and you're doing some great things. And I think it's so important. So you mentioned specifically kind of like, you know, I wanted to teach kids in DC. In the very early part of my career, actually, when I was actually a fisheries biologists There you go. I worked in DC and I occasionally visited schools throughout DC presenting information about the environment and the bay and fish and all that. And I always enjoyed going into the schools and working with kids. What about DC? What was it about DC that made you want to go there and support kids?
Angie Zara:Yeah, well, it's my hometown. I'm born and raised in DC. I'm a public school DC graduate. And if you know about DC, public schools, you know, being a proud DC DC public school graduate, like we just have a lot of pride for like our city and our schools even though you know what, however the school system is, is how it is. I have a really good friend who whose dad owns a very popular business in Washington, DC and every year, they would take kids from the neighborhood to to the beach for like a kid's beach trip. And I remember one year I went as a volunteer, and I remember you know about teaching city kids and taking them you know, to the beach, like I just remember I was like, That was wild. Like when I got home. I was like I'm exhausted. That was crazy, but I wouldn't do that, again. Like, there's something that I about that were like the level of intensity just felt like appropriate. That was, I think, when I was in college, so there would still be several more years until I was able to kind of like, you know, come to my full path, but it just felt very natural. I feel like I understand, DC kids, I am a, DC kid, I feel like just my background in my parents and their social justice work, and just my mindset. You know, I've always been a city girl, and why, you know, why not teach city kids in my hometown? Oh, guy might be frozen. So since guy Oh, there he is, hey,
Guy Stephens:I apologize about that. Being in a different place. In fact, I'm glad we came back. I'm on a strange internet connection, which is not working the way so I think I got a good part of your response. And then he disappeared. I apologize. Yeah. So let's talk about, you know, kind of we get the, you know, the why that led you there. And, you know, when you first got into education, you know, because I know that, you know, we talked a minute ago about kind of the transformation that happened as you became kind of trauma informed and brain aligned and kind of moving. But let's talk about when you first started, you know, what were some of the challenges? And what was it like when you began as a teacher? Did you feel like you were even appropriately equipped for the job that you were doing?
Angie Zara:Yeah, so I mean, fortunately, the program that I came up through, allowed us to have one year of I guess it would be considered pre service. So I had a mentor teacher, who was able to kind of coach me along in my first year. So my first year with a mentor teacher was really successful. And I learned a lot of things. And I really enjoyed it. The first year that I was on my own as my own teacher of record in my class, I taught third grade, and I quickly, again, like I said earlier, saw behaviors that I was not expecting to see. So for example, I saw a lot of self harm. In my third grade class, I saw suicide or heard and witnessed suicidal ideation, attempts at self harm and self harm. Very, you know, physical fighting, a lot of elopement. And I did not feel equipped, I did not feel equipped. And oftentimes, I would, I would ask administrators or colleagues, you know, what are some strategies? What can I do? I don't know what to do. And and I was met with, you know, I didn't feel like the the answers that I was met with, not to anyone, not to say anything negative about anyone, but I just don't think that people had the toolkit yet. And so, you know, I didn't feel like I was equipped. I did have a lot of supports. But I think sometimes, depending on the the background and the understanding and experience of the leadership that you have, they may not have the answers to based on their experiences and classroom experiences to equip teachers with what they may see in real time. I mean, the real answer is I teach in a title one full inclusion school that serves all wards in Washington, DC, which means that there certainly will be big behaviors and manifestations of disabilities that are, you know, can, you know, put harm on adults and children, not because of ill intent, but because of just you know, how things manifest and behaviors. So, you know, that's why I turned to the trauma community, because if I couldn't figure it out, in my school network, then in my mind, it was either I stopped teaching, or I find another way. And luckily, I found that way.
Guy Stephens:That's such a great point. Because, you know, certainly these have been challenging times, right? These have been challenging times in education, the pandemic, many other things that have been going on have made for very challenging times. And we know that there are people that are you know, first year second year teachers that are leaving the profession, a profession that they had really hoped to pour their lives into because they're not sure what to do and you bring up that great point about you know, sometimes we're looking for answers from from those that might have seniority or been there longer. But the the problem is that schools like anything else are sometimes places where we keep doing the same things, even though they're not working. And you know, many times those things are based around compliance and control. It's around, you know, how do we control situations? How do we get get the kids to comply? But but you kind of looked at, you know, the the options and what you instead this doesn't, there's got to be something else. Right? So that started your journey into what else? Is there? And what can I do differently? So what advice would you have for, you know, a teacher, young teacher gets into the right reasons, wants to help kids is in a really punitive culture or punitive school, but knows there must be a better way, what do they do? How do they make that journey? Because I'm sure you have tough days. But I also know from our conversations that you love doing what you're doing, and that you continue to have more and more ideas and influence and how to make things better. So what would your advice be for somebody that's, you know, kind of starting off and struggling?
Angie Zara:I think the power of community is so important. And I think that in a school building, or in a field, there has to be at least one person that can offer support or strategies to help build that toolbox for a new teacher. So always my advice, and my advice to my staff that I work with is asked for what you need, ask for support. Because if we do not ask for what we need, and we don't ask for help, then we are not in an you know, in a place to grow, and, and pivot and respond accordingly. Something else that I recommend, like if I were to be speaking to a new teacher who's watching this, who, you know, may have anxiety about responding to a tier three behavioral crisis, or maybe there's physicality with a student, I also think that making a response plan to center your own wellness is something that is really important, because at the end of the day, like we have to stay regulated when we respond to these behaviors, because otherwise, our stress response system will be activated, it will have negative impacts on our brain and body state. And ultimately, we will not be able to serve our students. So something that I offer my teachers, when I noticed that they may be grappling with how to respond to a crisis is, well, first of all, because of the nature of my position, and the fact that it's very new, and I can kind of create it as I go, I would literally sit aside and CO regulate a teacher in a crisis, to model how to remain calm. And you know how to respond appropriately and depersonalized the behavior? Or if that's not feasible, like let's make a crisis response plan for yourself? What are some strategies that you're going to do? What deep breathing? Are you going to tap into who's a colleague that you can ask to come in to support you in your classroom, because you need to just take five minutes to do the strategies that we tell our students to do? splash some water on your face, do some positive self talk, like, you know, schedule your mental health day? And then like, let's get back in there and build that resilience. So I would say, Yes, right. Yeah.
Guy Stephens:Right. Right. I love that. So you know, you had your personal journey, you you decided you wanted to teach you get into teaching, you realize some of the gaps there some of the challenges there, you begin to look for what fills those gaps, you begin to look for community, you get into the trauma informed space. What's what's the key to the transformation there? So at some point, you know, there's this something clicks, right, at some point, you know, you find that thing that maybe was missing, or that understanding that was missing, what was it for you? I mean, what was it that began to make that really click and your realization that, oh, there's a there's a different way, there's a better way? Is there anything specific that you can recall, that kind of helped you along that road?
Angie Zara:I mean, ultimately, my guiding core values in this field is like my belief and a child's capacity to do well if they can. And, you know, and I'm responsive to data and research, I think, as like you said, with the neuroscience as we start to look into brain states, and we start to just take a small chunk of the research and implement strategies, and then you start to see that they become they're effective, right? They work. That's when you start to have like the hope and you're like, Wait, so if I continue to implement these strategies on a regular basis, like with myself and with children, like what might happen, right? So if you truly believe that kids can do well and that inherently children want to do well, they're wired to want to do well, they're inherently good beings, then then you know that
Guy Stephens:It's important piece, right? Yeah. You know, very often people look at kids and they think they're manipulative, they're limit tests, and they're challenging. They're all of these things. But you know, they don't realize that these are human beings that have been through, sometimes trauma, sometimes stress sometimes have, you know, a manifestation of a disability, you know, it's important to remember, you know, kids don't have fully developed brains, especially very young kids, they don't have the skills they need to self regulate. So that that philosophical change is really important when that that acknowledgement that you know, kid would do well, if a kid could do well is a really important thing to do. So I mean, I can see how that is transformative. I know in my own journey, kind of some of the transformation with that as well. So you get back, you begin to get some of this knowledge, you begin to go through the applied Educational Neuroscience program, you're still in the classroom at that point, what happens? What are the changes that you see? So from the knowledge that you're getting, because you know, knowledge is one thing but applications another, right? So we can, we can learn something we can know, I know this, but to be able to take it, and to apply it and to make improvements that are helping the kids that you're serving that are helping yourself? What that looked like, what did it look like, as you began to apply knowledge that you were learning into your classroom? As you were still a teacher at that point?
Angie Zara:Yeah, I mean, a lot of trial and error. A lot of, you know, it's the same kind of concept where you're maybe learning a really great new math strategy, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited to try this. And then you try it. And it's not perfect, but there's a little bit of progress, and maybe one kid has a positive outcome, right, and it really clicks. And so just, you know, the willingness, again, to keep trying, I think something else that I that I received that was really helpful was, you know, I did have, again, like having a community where you can try and then reflect, and then try, again, I think is really important. I think being willing to be like observed is also something that can be really important with these strategies. I'm sorry, I just had a total brain fart. Would you mind asking the second part of the question again?
Guy Stephens:Oh, gosh, that Nana, you're really getting
Angie Zara:lost in the sauce. So So
Guy Stephens:what I'm really trying to figure out is, after going out and finding your community, and you know, how that how you brought that to the classroom, how you brought about changes, because of what you were beginning to learn and your kind of philosophical change. So what that looked like, I mean, you know, yeah, yeah. So so how did that manifest in terms of working with the kids on a day to day basis?
Angie Zara:Yeah. So I mean, it's really just taking the practices that like, if I'm learning about focus, attention practices, and, you know, mindfulness, and I'm literally getting a tool from my program that says, here's a focus attention practice that I've done with children that were modeling in class, as a community of learners, I would take that focus, attention practice. And the next morning, I would say, Okay, guys, this is something that I've learned, again, that modeling piece of like, I'm a learner. And so I want to try this with you. And maybe this won't be helpful for you, but maybe it will be helpful for one person in here. And if it helps one person, and I know that it helps me then like, that's a win. And then maybe tomorrow, we'll try a new strategy, right. And then it's really just about like, that I just beat but was able, you know, when you model the practices that you want learners to see, it's the same transfer of knowledge in a way, like in literacy, and in math, only you're modeling, regulation, you're modeling risk taking, you're modeling coping strategies. So it's just aligns with the principles of education, right? If we have our community of learners, and we are modeling and teaching these practices, these strategies, why would they not catch on in the same ways we expect this entire school system to run where we expect math strategies, and literacy strategies to take with student brain like students brains, so it's just applying the same principles, but just in a, you know, very specialized way that helps construct again, those like helpful functioning, you know, members of society. So it's just, you know, the ability to take risks and model vulnerability and transparency and be willing to fail.
Guy Stephens:Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. And, you know, again, you know, a willingness to fail means that you try things and not everything may not work for every student, right? But when you are able to connect with the student, and I think the principles, the principles and the philosophy that you you brought in, kind of after really, you know, finding the approaches that aligned with you. Those are so critical, right I want to get to in a second, I want to get to, you know, kind of what happened next. But before I do, there's been a lot of chatter. And I don't want to I don't want to miss it all. So I'm going to go through a couple of these comments and questions real quick. Karen burgers, who is an amazing special educator in Oregon, said, I jumped on late looking for the higher education. What program is this? And Karen, I believe what we were talking about at the time that you might have caught us was the applied Educational Neuroscience program by Dr. Laurie Desautels. at Butler University, and I've just put that in the chat as well. So you'll be able to see that that's a program that not only has he been through, but our guest last week, Dr. Dustin Springer have been through as well. And several the people that we've, you know, interviewed have have done this as well. Shelly says, Thank you for speaking on this topic. Let's see what else we have here. See? Right. From so cat has just said, unfortunately, for emotionally disturbed children are exposed to compliance base point and level systems throughout the country. And that's true. A lot of these approaches that really, I mean, I would say not only aren't evidence based but are causing difficulty for a lot of kids, you know, cats, so there's a lot of change that needs to happen. Leonard says that I spent 27 years in law enforcement, and the universe called me is education as well. And I've talked to lender before, and I know that that'd be true. And you know, so, you know, again, I used to not be the person that would say the universe is calling us, but I feel like there's a number of people. And I think about a number of people that we know, together. You know, maybe there's a big movement here that people that are being called a lot of people in our audience as well. And speaking of which, Jennifer having that curious parents get things moving? Yep, absolutely. Oh, look at this. How about Jodi, Jodi, from Virginia, joining us as well. We had a lot of comments here. So I'm just gonna get through a few more here
Angie Zara:I think he'll be back soon guys. If I know guy, his stress response system is activated right now with being frozen. All right, so it's just me. So I can definitely respond to some of these discussions around punitive and exclusionary discipline? It's, I think, hey, Dustin, I think it's really interesting to think about, I mean, to me, there's always a direct correlation with teacher regulation, and punitive, exclusionary discipline. So I always wonder why we're sending students out of the room, why we're sending a student to someone who is not us. Somebody that I always told my students when I was a teacher is that there's no way that I'm going to send you because first of all, we have all the strategies we need to calm down and regulate in our classroom, to we have a space to calm down in our classroom and a space to take space if we need it. And three, I'm the closest proximity to like a caregiver than my principal.
Guy Stephens:Okay, I had a bit of a technical issue here. And I don't know if I'm back or not. Angie, can you hear me your back?
Angie Zara:Yeah, I was just I was responding to the discussion around like exclusionary discipline. So I just kind of started taking over, but I'm so glad you're
Guy Stephens:awesome. Awesome. Awesome. I've never had quite this kind of problem before. Right now. I'm connected through my cell phone. So hopefully, the cell phone will keep us connected. And we'll just we'll just try to that. But thank you for jumping in and continuing on. I was trying to look at the the comments here. We got a lot of great comments. You know, people talking about Sandy mentioned similar mentioned Community Care. Jody said, Let's see I'm in a new school this year and seeing so many falling back to exclusionary discipline. That's probably what you were addressing there as a reaction to behavior. And those exclusionary practices, of course, are really harmful or harmful. And you know, when we think about a lot of the things that happen to kids, and I would say don't do kids, restraint, seclusion, suspension, expulsion, corporal punishment, you know, all of these things are further traumatizing kids that typically have trauma histories. And from my experience, they they lead to more not less behavior. So Very often these approaches that people fall back to are not only not helping, they're making things worse. But why do you think that is? I mean, why do you think that? You know, when times are tough that people fall back to things, even if they're not working?
Angie Zara:Well, I was sharing that I think there's always a, you know, there's always a wandering around why students are being excluded my main push when I started this position, and, you know, fortunately, I have the alignment of my leadership team and my boss, my principle is that we need to maximize time in classrooms, we need to equip teachers with tools to respond to behavior. And we need to make sure that we are maximizing time in the room, there's, you know, there's nowhere, that's else it's going to be helpful for a student to reengage with learning out like outside of their room. I also think sometimes when we're talking about students with disabilities, it you know, we have to look within, we have to think about, are we differentiating the work the academic demands appropriately to meet student need, you know, because chances are, if a student isn't able to engage from an empowered place, then they're going to do something that is more preferred, which is not being their learning community. So what role do we have to make sure that we are like engaging students in a way that helps them feel, you know, included from the real inclusion lens. And then I was also just saying, like, as our stress response level, you know, increases, we resort to ineffective outcome outcomes and ineffective practices, because we don't know what else to do. And so I ultimately think it becomes like a teacher capacity issue.
Guy Stephens:You know, I would say that you, and I think, you know, because we've had a lot of conversations, you know, I'm very empathetic towards teachers afterwards. How do we better support, you know, educators, you know, and others in the classroom? And, you know, I think the challenge is, if you don't if you can't imagine another solution, you can't imagine another solution, right? So if you've not been exposed to better alternatives, it's all that you know, and you know, that's where programs like the supplied Educational Neuroscience program, you know, comes into play. That's where building that community comes into play. There's so many things that we can do to help support people, but sometimes it means shifting away from the things that aren't working. Right.
Angie Zara:Yeah. I also think like, you know, the people on this call are obviously people, you know, if you're working in schools like Jodie, I know, you know, you're disrupter, right? So if there are students that are systematically excluded, and probably like, the intersectionality of race, and disability is something that should be considered here. Right, which then becomes an equity issue. So we have to reflect on as educational leaders like what role are we playing in disrupting, actively disrupting, and dismantling those inequities? And that might look like having a courageous conversation with a colleague like, Hey, I noticed that is outside of the classroom a lot? Do you need some help figuring out strategies to support them? Or like, you know, just engaging in those conversations so that we're not, you know, being bystanders?
Guy Stephens:Mm hmm. So it looks like you did a really good job when I disappeared on you. And a couple of people made comments here. Jennifer said, you have this and, and it Shelly said, Angie, that was a really good response to the situation. So thank you for your your flexibility. I apologize about the technical issues here. I do have one more, or maybe two more questions here that are popping up from people. But then I want to get on with the rest of your story. I want to talk about how you shifted and why you shifted your focus from a classroom teacher into sel. So from Jennifer, how do you handle situations where the teacher slash staff say, we have to remove the student because they are disrupting the entire class? This is often their reason, which in my opinion, is unacceptable? Because we know there are ways to ensure that things don't rise to that level.
Angie Zara:Yeah, I mean, I think there's, there's a couple of ways to go. I think teacher reflection is necessary, right? So like, why is like when I hear about a behavior? My first question is why, like, why is the student disrupting class? What are they trying to communicate in their disruption? Are they trying to communicate? I don't want to do this because it's too hard. I don't want to be in here because I don't feel welcome, like what is the underlying communication? Or I can't write or I can't do it right, or I can't and then again, the responsibility falls on the teacher to provide the scaffolds and reframe, right, like that's another social emotional learning strategy of the reframing of the thinking of like, instead of saying, I can't, let's say instead, I need some help, but I'll try to get started. Right? So it's like interrogating that idea of like, well Why Why is the student disrupting the class repeatedly? And then also holding teachers accountable? With their tier one proactive strategies in community building? You know, a really great quote from Dr. Laurier. Like a reflection question that I've heard from the the neuroscience class is, what is the, like thinking about the classroom climate? It when you enter a room? Is it in a state of regulation or dysregulation? And then how is that conducive to learning or not? Especially when we think of our more neuro diverse or, you know, not neurotypical students? So, you know, just kind of asking, though, why, and always using the using data, I think, is something that's really important. And also starting with yourself, right? Because like, before, you're checking in with others and asking, why there why six black boys are in the hallway, doing small group work every day during literacy, you might want to look within first and say, what does what do my equity practices look like? What does my discipline practice look like? Am I not? No, and I'm a play in, am I in a place to model leadership? Am I walking the walk, and if I am, then I think you should be empowered to try again to dismantle those mindsets.
Guy Stephens:So I had a long comment here from our friend Floyd. Floyd said, Often when I've heard of or observed the idea of modeling, I usually have observed it as a tool of coercion. We do that we do what we want to see in the world, and then celebrate those that do the right way and discipline the folks that don't, I've started to shift my thoughts around this topic from modeling to embodying my values and supporting others and embodying their own values. I don't want to be in a space where people do what I can do. But rather what they can do is it's a great point for Floyd and Floyd is always very, very thoughtful about things. It's an interesting, you know, take on on that.
Angie Zara:I agree. And Floyd, I feel like that, that makes so much sense. Because we also have to think about culture, and how culture and lived student identity and experience impacts how students show up in their classroom, and that my culture, and my skin I'm in and my lived experience, is not the same, like as any of my students, and therefore how they're going to show up, is going to be completely different, not because it's wrong, but because it's a different embodiment of the skin that they're in. And they're, you know, what's led them to that moment. And so that's why I think we also have to reflect on like, when we're seeking, like, Reg regulation and a student or CO regulation, it has to have that like culturally responsive component of like me in a regulated state is going to look different than Floyd's regulation. So I think that's just like really important. And really, again, like that equity component of like, every learner is different. And every learner is not for me, like a white presenting biracial woman from Washington DC with, you know, all these other intersectionalities.
Guy Stephens:So I think what you said, Floyd said, yes, yes, yes. So I think that really resonated with him. Leonard had a comment here, what are your thoughts, or response to a teacher who says, a child is playing you a child is manipulating you. And we hear that a lot, right? We often make the worst intent assumptions about children, rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt and often go to it's intentional, right. And people think often that all behavior is intentional. And we know now that it's not we know, there's a lot of different things that might drive a behavior. So what are your thoughts on that? If you had an educator that came to you and your role, and said, hey, you know, this guy's just playing me?
Angie Zara:Yeah, I mean, I definitely have seen and said that people are being played out by children. And what I mean by playing, being played out by a kid is that there is intentional pushing of boundaries, and not adhering to boundaries, typically, because the educator is not withholding those boundaries and expectations with consistency, and therefore the educator is getting played by the kids. And typically, it occurs in like a group dynamic. That's my experience. Right? So I think, again, it falls back on the educator to reflect on like, if I'm getting played out by 80% of my class, then what are the moves that I'm making and what consistency Am I missing? What accountability measures or high expectations Am I not maintaining? That's helping perpetuate that when it comes to something like manipulation? That again, makes me ponder, like, what is manipulation? What is the manipulative behavior that you're referring to? And if you're referring to something as savvy as manipulation, then really, if again, think about our belief about children. If a child is exhibiting a very, very savvy, like This maladaptive coping strategy of manipulation, it's likely a learned behavior, right? And then again, the onus does not fall on the child who has learned the maladaptive behavior. But the onus falls on the adult to proactively or responsively teach the necessary skills to replace, what am I seeking when I'm trying to manipulate? Am I trying to get my way? Well, what are some better ways that I can communicate trying to get my way and equipping the kids with that repetition? So again, it's like, you know, those, when we're really thinking about that language, like, what explicitly are we referring to? Because sometimes we make blanket statements about children that aren't objective.
Guy Stephens:Right? Right. Right, right. So we've had a lot of great comments. And I want to I want to get away from him for a second, though, and kind of go on a little bit more on your story. But it's great to see all this interaction, people are really excited about what you have to share. So you're a classroom teacher, you're doing things that you've learned through your trauma informed journey through your neuroscience, and then you begin to see another need. Talk to me about how you went from a classroom teacher, to your current role, and what your what drove that, and what you're hoping to see come out of that.
Angie Zara:So it wasn't that I saw another need. It was that I knew the needs that I saw in my classroom were happening in every classroom. So what typically kind of how my career trajectory went was like, I became the teacher, where I'm like, give me the hardest kids. And like, I will build the most positive relationship with them. Like, we will be engaged in extracurriculars. By the end of the year, our academic achievement will increase, like, you're going to feel a sense of belonging, like, let's, let's go, like, let's really do it. Because these practices, these practices were so effective, right. And so what I, you know, I just began to really like gain my confidence. And I began to see like the data, right, increased academic achievement, I had a student, one of my favorite students of all time, in the beginning of third grade, he was out of the classroom, eloping and avoiding 80% of his of his day, 80% of the day, with chronic attendance issues, you know, would punch holes in the wall, by the end of the school year, or even by Midway, in the school year, in the classroom, 100% of the time, again, attending multiple extracurricular activities, classroom leader, leading classroom and regulation strategies. So I just began to see not only that this could work in my classroom, but that if all teachers had the strategies and this mindset, that we could maybe start to change our education system, right, like, we could maybe make a big dent, because not only what I have students with increased time in the classroom that really changed their school trajectory. But like, also students who were in Child Study for disabilities, because they might have experienced acute trauma, but because they had a very strong relationship with their teacher, a strong family partnership, they were out of the special education trajectory, and their academic achievement increased, right. So it doesn't just affect like the behavioral outcomes of children, but it affects like their academic outcomes and their school experience. And if we can change the trajectory of a kid's school experience, you talked about the school to prison pipeline, like, what if you can make an impact where like, you can make that change? Right? Like how, how great could could we the great work that we could do, right? So that's where I was just like, here's my data, here's my experience. Like, let's, let's go, let's, let's get this for everybody, let's, let's get to work.
Guy Stephens:So I gotta jump in on that real quick, you know, you make the change. You know, it reminds me of a comment that my friend, Susan Hopkins, who works with us search anchor, with self reg in America center. You know, we often find that teachers and others are looking for tools and strategies. But Susan had this great quote, where she said, You are the strategy, you know, it's you, you're the strategy. And and, you know, what you how you launch into that was talking about what's near and dear to my heart, which is relationships. You know, I'm not the only one that says it. But, you know, when I think about the three R's of education, its relationship, relationship, relationship. Relationship is what can support a kid who has had complex trauma, generational trauma, who has a disability, and has not been understood those relationships can be the the difference between success and a child that ends up on the wrong path. You know, so I love your emphasis on that. And, you know, you sometimes hear like, well, we don't have time for relationships, we don't have time to build relationships with with 25 kids. You know, and the truth is that there's a lot of kids that don't have the same needs. I mean, you know, maybe Three or four kids that really need that extra work in that extra relationship. I mean, all kids are gonna benefit. Right. But, you know, I think it's so important, even if it feels overwhelming to make that investment. So what, what? What brought you to that? I mean, you know, or was that just always who you were was, was trying to build the relationships.
Angie Zara:I was always very relationship driven with children. I mean, I, I think, at this point when it comes to education, given where our educational system is, if educators are not willing to build really authentic relationships with children in
Guy Stephens:authentic social work, right, yeah, you know, when I hear things like therapeutic relationship, kids, kids are the biggest excuse my language bullshit detectors. Oh, yeah. If you're, you know, faking a relationship, you might as well not even make the effort. You know, it takes an authentic relationship.
Angie Zara:Exactly. And if and if you don't have the capacity, or the willingness, or the desire to build authentic relationships with the humans that you're teaching, at this point in education, you should not be an education, I really think that I really think that like, where we are post pandemic, given where society is, and what we know a lot of our kids are coming in with, we just, it's just not a choice. Teaching is not you show up, you teach all day, and you go home, it's it's a lot more than that. So I was always relationship driven. That always was one of my core, you know, drives. But I, again, it's like the research, I think Bruce Perry, you know, Bruce Perry's work, like everything, you know, that started to come out of the pages was like, relationships, repetition, you know, and I'm just like, right, right over there.
Guy Stephens:What's the quote, the greatest? You know, therapy is human love and connection. Right? Exactly. Yeah. So So surely, I've said this many times as well. You don't have time not to build relationships with students. Of course, our friend Dustin, Dustin, great to have you here. Relationships are a foundation of what we do and who we are. And that's where we build safety. And of course, safety is foundational. If a kid doesn't feel safe, a kid can't learn, and
Angie Zara:the learning part of their brain, we have
Guy Stephens:we have. So we've been talking a lot about you, Dr. Laurie, and we'll have to talk about your upcoming book here as well. But great to have you here. So let's continue on this for a second. So you saw the need in your classroom, and then you knew that others were having that need? How did this turn into a new position? And what are you doing in your current position?
Angie Zara:So basically, I campaigned for my principal, who is amazing, you know, saw the, you know, was really bought into my work. I also on the side, it wasn't just like I was in my classroom, I was, you know, walking the walk, I was also writing and creating things, I was creating summer projects to model the power of community, how to build community, in a pandemic, I was doing all of these side projects, I created like a wellness team centered in like adult regulation, I just kept creating these committees creating these documents, quoting all this research, and I just was like that person, because it works. And I was leading peds. And so I was already becoming, you know, the trauma person at my school, the classroom management person, the SEL person. And I just, you know, kept reiterating, like, just give me just give me a chance, like, give me a chance to do this in a big picture scale. And I promise you, like I can start to make a real impact, let me you know, zoom out. And, you know, not only did I have the student data, the relationships with students and walking that walk, but also like, you know, really applying my leadership through sharing research, professional development, and things like that. And they, you know, it took a lot. But the position was created, and then yeah, my day to day is pretty crazy.
Guy Stephens:So, you know, I'm gonna make some, you know, guesses here, but I mean, I think so. Let me praise, reframe this a little bit. I know and have met amazing educators that are doing fantastic work in their schools that had been very successful in reducing restraint, seclusion, moving away from punitive practices that have been really provided some leadership and in the schools that they've been in, and their stories are not always the same. It's not always appreciated. And I hate to say that, but yeah, you know, we find cases where teachers are trying to and I think about a teacher that I mentioned earlier, teachers are trying to bring about positive change, and the system pushes against them. Now, when I think about your success, and I'm just looking from an outsider that knows a bit about you, I think that your success could be attributed in part to persistence. You know, when I think about you, Angie, you are not going away, you are going to be persistent. But you're also I think, a really, you know, I hate to say the word salesperson, but I think you're good at selling your ideas, and selling your ideas is important. If you can't sell your ideas to others, it's hard to get people to move in the right direction. But thinking about that first problem, I mean, I even know educators that have done amazing work that have had been retaliated against, because they're pushing against a system that doesn't want to change. What is your advice for somebody? I mean, you know, you and you know, it wasn't just that you were, maybe you had a better administrator, and you had a better team there that was more receptive. And that can make a difference. But, yeah, certainly, your persistence and the things that you did gotcha there. What advice might you have for an educator that's running against that it's running against, you know, trying to make change, but not being supported?
Angie Zara:Yeah, I mean, again, like I think, just like we tell our learners like the power of community is really helpful to build that resilience. And, I mean, I also heard no a lot, I heard no, a lot. And I was rejected for this position, the proposal was rejected. I experienced a lot of rejection. And it did not deter me, because I know that in order to be like a change maker, you're going to hear no, but if you believe in, you know, your purpose, and the truly, it's not even about me, but it's about I believe so much in the work, that it it doesn't matter how many times you hear no, you just have to keep going. But I do think, you know, when it comes to alignment, and, you know, thinking about sustainability for self, it really is important to find some allies somewhere, either in the school system, you know, colleagues at your school, because chances are with this research, I mean, unless you're in a very, I just can't imagine that there would be not one person in a school building that would be able to catch on and buy into this stuff, right. And so So I think, like not working in a silo, and continuing to move the work forward model model model. And I think one of the reasons that I've been so effective in my role now, is because I was a teacher in the school that I'm working in, but teachers know that I'm, I've really walked the walk and walking the walk of a teacher with getting some of the hardest kids in the school gets a lot of buy in. And when you add that with the research, absolutely. People can't say that doesn't work, because you're living walking proof that it works.
Guy Stephens:Yep. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's a great point about finding, finding allies, right. And even though you might feel alone, you know, if you can win over one and win over another, you know, I think about all the times I've given away copies of books that people, you know, I can imagine, you know, passing somebody, you know, connections or compliance or whatever it may be, and getting a conversation started, or maybe having a book club, you know, at the school and getting people to talk about some of these concepts. But change is hard, and sometimes resist, you know, systems are resistant to that change. And I told you earlier that we have people from all over the world. And Linda, thank you, Linda, is my I cannot count on Linda, to tune in from New Zealand, where it's, I'm gonna get it wrong, Linda, I know, it's probably eight or nine o'clock in the morning there tomorrow. So it's already Friday morning there. But we really do have a great, in fact, you know, Linda did some work with Bruce Perry as well. So we've got this great community that goes beyond the, you know, the United States and kind of an international community. Dustin, of course, talk about persistence, and being a louder voice, is what's going to change these systems, and no longer serving our communities. And, and sometimes it's not even louder, but it's it's being able to change the thoughts and ideas of the right people. Right. So sometimes you can do that through persuasion, but I think persistence is so key. And of course, Lori says, Yes. And and Dustin, gave you 100% Yes, as well. So now that you're you're doing this work are you? Are you finding, are there other schools that have similar roles to this? Or, you know, have you written anything that talks about kind of the roadmap to what you were doing and why you were doing it? Because it sounds like this has been really beneficial to your school. So how do we get, you know, others kind of moving in that direction as well?
Angie Zara:Oh, that's a great question. That's a really good question. And one that I haven't had the chance to dig into too much yet. I mean, I think a roadmap would be helpful.
Guy Stephens:You see where I'm headed with this right? You see where I'm at it. I mean, yeah, article that you write, I can I can imagine a presentation. But you know, really I mean, you know, when we talk about, you know, we sometimes talk about being disruptors and disrupting the system, you know, we need to take stories like yours and get them out there to people about the kinds of change. And, you know, I mean, I think it's a great thing to think about, you know, moving forward.
Angie Zara:Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely something to think about to answer the first question, I don't think that there are roles, like my role, to my knowledge in at least in DC, you there's still a lot of, and this is where, like, you know, old, I don't know that I can kind of think of some kind of, you know, lovely little phrase, but But it's like, you know, old habits die hard, maybe. So typically, when I was, you know, because I did tell my school, I was like, Look, I either want this position here, or I'm gonna go somewhere else and try to find what I'm looking for. So when I was looking, you know, there, so a lot of Dean, coordinator of school culture, I think, is one or like, culture coordinator, behavior technician, behavior specialist. And none of those encompass, in my opinion, like what the work that I've feel like I'm doing with social emotional learning specialists, the opportunity to coach teachers, work with administrators do big picture, strategic planning, and work with students pushing in with students pulling small groups with students working one on one with students, like, you know, we're really talking about getting in there and being proactive and responsive. But it sounds like a lot of those things are still rooted in the in the reaction. Reaction lane. Oh, that's a cool question, Shelly. Invading the Federal Department of Ed people, I don't know what that would look like I run around all day, they'd have to just wear sneakers and follow me around. Let's see if guy heads back soon. Oh, Jennifer, thank you for sharing. And Jennifer, I actually wanted to answer one of your questions. You asked about, oh, hey, guy. Sorry, I was going to answer one of Jennifer's old. Other questions.
Guy Stephens:No, no, no, please, please do. Yep. I can hear you. But you couldn't hear me. But go ahead. Oh, okay. Perfect.
Angie Zara:So Jennifer. Yeah, I mean, first of all, thank you for sharing that. I'm so sorry for your loss. I did want to just respond to a question that you had about creating culture with students. And it's interesting that you say that, because if anyone is coming to the creating trauma sensitive schools conference, I am literally presenting on that topic, how to co create a community, an equity driven, trauma informed community. And there are definitely practices that like when I create my classroom community, we do everything together. We, I mean, we don't set up the classroom together, because they have to come into us out of classroom, but like, we co create our norms. Everyone signs them, including me, we co create our regulation strategies. We co create, you know, our expectations. We co created just everything is like collaborative. So to answer your question, if we're not talking about like, compliance, and like you should do this, you should do this. It's like, what do we expect to have? How can we thrive in a community together and work together to create expectations that we can all agree to including the adults, something I always tell kids is like, every expectation I asked you to do, I will do. So like there's nothing in here that that like, I'm not going to also uphold.
Guy Stephens:So thank you for that. And, you know, I just wanted to go back to what we were talking about earlier. And I just shared the link to the attachment trauma Network Conference. And of course, not only will you be there, I'll be there, Jody will be there. Dustin will be there. We've got an amazing group of people that are going to be at that event. So you know, if you're an educator or paraprofessional administrator, whatever it may be, look up the attachment trauma Network Conference, parents, I mean, anyone that's interested in coming, it's a really great event that's out there. But you know, I'm just thinking, you know, I'd love to see maybe a future presentation preview on this idea of like, creating the change that you're, you know, trying to see in the, you know, trying to say, creating the kind of position that you create it there, you know, with with your school, so, you know, maybe a future conference, I'll hear you talking about that, because I think that idea. Yeah, I think there's a big need for Well, listen, we're getting right about time and given the technical issues that we've had. I want to one thank you for for being part of this conversation. You know, it's been A privilege to get to know you and get to collaborate with you on things. And the work that you're doing is, I know, it's fulfilling, because you're making differences for kids, you're doing things that, you know, there are kids that you're gonna be seeing and 10 years from now that you know, you've made a difference in their life, and the work that you're doing is really meaningful. So thank you for all you do. Thank you for spending the time with us today, I want to give you an opportunity, if there's any kind of final words you want to leave us with or any, any last wisdom that you'd like to share with us. Let me give you the final word here.
Angie Zara:Um, I just want to like, again, walk the walk and say that something that I haven't been doing as much is leaning into my trauma network and community. So I just am asking my trauma peeps out there. Let's stay connected. I look forward to hopefully seeing some of you guys at the trauma conference. And I just really appreciate the engagement and guy, you are such a hard working amazing soul. So I really appreciate the chance to work with you and just talk about this work, I get so fired up. So you know, thank you. And thank everyone for staging.
Guy Stephens:Absolutely. And we had a great group today. And I really appreciate everybody being so engaged. You know, when we do these live events, it's really exciting to see so many people weighing in and asking questions and providing comments. And a lot of great thank yous here as well. In fact, we're getting them moving through here. So thank you so much for being here today. Normally, I would shift my screen and show who's coming up next week. But given the technical issues I've having, I'm just gonna say be here again, in two weeks, we have another great speaker lined up. And unfortunately, because Facebook is blocked right now, I don't have that in front of me. But I'm glad we got through this energy, thank you for your flexibility when when the system kind of broke on us here. That's never happened before. But if it was going to happen, I was glad with you because you You seem to just kind of roll with it. So thank you for that. I look forward to continuing to work with you and connect with you and continue working shoulder to shoulder with you and so many people that are making positive change in the world. It's going to have it it's going to make a difference. So thank you much. We'll see you again see in Houston in person it's funny, you know because we're not that far away from each other and you know, not met you in person but I'll meet you in person in Houston, but thanks so much. And goodbye, everybody.
Angie Zara:Take care. Bye guys. Thank you