Closing the Gap - Why Cultural Safety Matters. Unpacking Culturally Responsive Teaching & Trauma-informed Care.

Closing the gap - Why cultural safety matters in promoting mental health, equity, inclusion, and resilient minds in education settings? - Unpacking culturally responsive teaching and trauma-informed care.

Balaji Somasundaram and Meera Balaji – We are husband and wife and were lawyers for 20 years in India in our past lives with a focus on children’s rights and family law. Currently, we are registered teachers/specialist educators in Aotearoa New Zealand and working as Learning Support Coordinators across 12 schools and 13 Early Childhood Centres in Wellington, the capital city of Aotearoa, New Zealand in an area of significant socioeconomic deprivation.

We believe we are in a distinctive position to recognize our students and their families' perspectives, narratives, and ongoing challenges as we strive to provide appropriate support services through timely actions to heal trauma and buffer its negative effects. We are passionate advocates for social justice, inclusion, and diversity both in our personal and professional lives. As educators from a minority culture in New Zealand, we firmly believe our children need to experience relationships around them with unconditional care, compassion, and commitment which will help to re-work their internal working models of themselves and the world around them. Despite barriers in different forms, the welfare of children has always been our utmost priority. Culturally responsive pedagogies and the work of Dr. Stephen Porges, the creator of Polyvagal Theory, underpins and is the foremost of the work we continue to do with the advocacy for our vulnerable children and young people who are at high risk.

We have a Bachelors in Law, Masters in Educational Psychology, and another Masters in Specialist Teaching with a specialty in Autism Spectrum Disorder. We recently completed the one-year graduate Applied Educational Neuroscience program under Dr. Lori Desautels from Butler University, Indianapolis, and also completed Neurosequential Model in Education with Dr. Bruce Perry’s Child Trauma Academy. We are also trained in evidence-based interventions and frameworks for autism - like TEACCH from the University of North Carolina, SCERTS, Early Start Denver Model, Picture Exchange Communication System (PECS), Hanen’s Four ‘Is’ to socialize, which are widely used in New Zealand to support the needs of children and young people with autism. We both are also qualified in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with Beck Institute, Philadelphia, and trained teachers in Dyslexia.

We have also been part of many advisory and research groups in New Zealand for culturally responsive pedagogies and recently were part of the advisory group for the new guidelines for minimizing physical restraints in New Zealand, which is a work in progress. Over the years, we have been working with and alongside neurodivergent learners, particularly autistic individuals, and are continuing to advocate/support their unique needs by embracing their strengths, voices, and perspectives both in Aotearoa, New Zealand, and India.

Transcript

Guy Stephens  0:12  

Well hello and welcome. I'm Guy Stephens, the founder and executive director of the Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint. And you are here today for ASR live. I will tell you, however, I'm not live well, I am alive. But this session is actually being pre recorded. So right now it is Thursday, August 31. And we're actually recording today's session, which will air and it will air live on September 7. So if you are watching right now, and it is September 7, around 3:30, eastern time here in the United States, know that it's day ahead in New Zealand, which happens to be where our, our special guests are coming to us from today. But again, I just wanted to note that we are not live, which is why we're not doing our usual questions during the broadcast. But be very aware this is being recorded live. So you know, it will be a one shot recording, and it will be delivered to you live as it's made available. So I do want to let you know, of course, as I mentioned, my name is Guy Stevens, I'm the founder and executive director of the Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint. The alliance against seclusion and restraint is an organization that is focused on really doing better for kids, for teachers, for others. You know, we began our work around the use of restraints, seclusion in schools here in the United States. But our mission has continued to grow. It's not just about restraint, seclusion, and it's not just in the United States, it's about often all the things that are being done to kids or other people very commonly in the name of behavior. So it's restraint, seclusion, suspension, expulsion, corporal punishment, it's failed attempts to support kids in, you know, behavioral modification and management programs that not only are not effective, but can in fact, be harmful. So our work is really about informing change in doing better. It's about really advocating for, you know, trauma informed, neuroscience aligned, relationship driven and collaborative approaches. So anyway, check out our website, which is n seclusion.org, to learn more about the organization. And let me just transition into talking a little bit about today's presentation. As I mentioned, while you will be seeing this airing live, this will have been recorded previously, and we have a really special presentation in store for you today. And you're gonna get to upset I'm trying to find my other screen here, you're going to get to meet a couple of people that I really think highly of and highly admire. And I tell you every week that I'm really excited about today's presentation, and it's always true, we booked people to come talk to you and talk to me that we're excited about having join us. And today is certainly no exception. Today, we've got with us Bouchy Soma Sundram. And I hope I'm getting that right I got a head shake off camera, and Mira Valjean, and I've actually had the privilege of not only knowing them for some time, but actually getting to meet them in person not too long ago. But let me tell you a little bit about them. They are husband and wife and they were lawyers for 20 years in India, as they describe in their past lives. I'm somebody with one of those past lives as well. You know, of course, I was a fisheries biologist, marine biologist, environmental scientist, and somehow life changed. And here I am. And they have focused on children's rights and family law. And they are registered teachers and special educators in New Zealand. And they have been working as learning support coordinators across 12 schools and 13 early childhood centers in Wellington and doing some really amazing work. And you know, one of the things that they say is that, you know, they believe they're in a position to recognize students and their families perspectives, their narratives, their ongoing challenges, and really strive to provide appropriate support services, through timely actions and healing trauma to help buffer against the the negative effects of trauma. And they're both very passionate advocates for social justice and inclusion and diversity in both their personal and professional lives. And that's much of the glue that is connected us and kept us together here as well. And of course, as educators, from a minority culture and New Zealand, they really believe that children need to experience relationships around them with unconditional care, compassion and commitment. I'm sure that if you're watching this, you're probably as excited as I am. In hearing these words, and of course, you know, these are people that are doing work that's making a tremendous difference. Informed by work of people like Dr. Steven Porges and they've got background in educational psychology and teaching and specialties and understanding and working with individuals that are autistic, really a lot of great stuff. They were actually both part of the applied Educational Neuroscience Program, which you've no doubt heard us talk about quite a bit. That's the program that Dr. Laurie Desautels runs out of Butler University. And that's a program where we have seen really amazing people and amazing work happening. And they were part of that program. That was one of the the ways that I think we connected initially. So anyway, you are in for a treat, you're in for a treat. We've got a while I was talking about how when we do these live events, we have people from all over the world that are joining us. And you know, right now, if you happen to watch live, you know, share in the chat, tell us who you are and where you're from, I'd love to hear from you. Even though we're not technically live today. We'd love to hear who you are, where you're from. And just keep in mind again, you know, we are working across the world with amazing partners like the two individuals you're gonna meet today. And this is work to help promote change. And with that, I'm going to go ahead and bring up and introduce our guests. And I will mention that I noticed a moment ago for some reason my camera was trying to make my face look different. And I'm not quite sure why I was not trying to shave years on I think years off somehow my camera got stuck and trying to enhance my appearance. My appearance is what it is at this point in my life. So I've taken that off and hopefully don't really look ridiculous anymore. So mera rousing. Thank you, thank you, thank you, not only for being here today. But thank you for the work that you've been doing throughout your career. Thank you for for standing up and pushing for, you know, social justice and advocating for individuals. It's always a pleasure when I get to meet amazing people like yourselves, and have an opportunity to learn to hear things that I've not heard before. I mean, I often joke with people I do these live events. And, you know, I almost feel like over the almost four years that I've been doing these, almost like I've had the best course in the world in front of me, as I'm able to talk to amazing people like you so Mirabella, let me stop talking. Welcome. Thank you for joining us here today. We're really excited to have you.

Meera Balaji  7:18  

Well, thank you so much guy for your very kind introduction. We really feel humble. And we take this opportunity to express our heartfelt thanks to you for having us today. And for inviting us to talk about cultural safety, which is quite meaningful and rewarding. We know your time is precious, and we are immensely grateful that you're able to carve out some time with us. And for all your encouragement, we also want to acknowledge and appreciate your extremely valuable contributions, and the exceptional work and advocacy you're continuing to do. So, guy, it was an absolute pleasure and honor to meet you personally in Maryland. And we felt an instant connection with you We remember passionately talking about culture, neurodiversity, and equity. From the moment we first connected we knew you are a selfless, dedicated human who wants the very best for all students. And we learned so much listening to you. And always feel you share extremely valuable practical insights, and your ability to share key concepts and practical ideas that commendable. We are truly, truly grateful and can't express how excited and humble we are here to be with each and every one of you. Thank you again for giving us this wonderful. Well, thank

Guy Stephens  8:35  

you. You know, I'm not used to getting such a wonderful introduction when I do these live events. But But I gotta tell you, you know, I feel that in my heart. I genuinely appreciate those those words. You know, I'm transported back to a Cracker Barrel in California, Maryland. Well, we sat down and had some breakfast. And it was such a pleasure. And I remember you had the travel from well, I don't know what but you know, as I recall, you like arrived. Right? Right. You're right, right. But there you were, regardless of all the difficulties you ran into, on your your trip, making time to come out of your way come visit and it was really fantastic. So thank you for those kind words, guys.

Speaker 1  9:20  

It was an absolute honor and pleasure meeting you cherish for a lifetime. Definitely

Guy Stephens  9:24  

likewise and my hope, you know, as we were talking earlier, before we went on air, my hope is to come out there to New Zealand and visit you. And you know, at some point we'll figure out how to make that happen. I would love to come to New Zealand and yeah,

Unknown Speaker  9:39  

The will certainly happen soon that will

Guy Stephens  9:42  

get a lot of amazing allies in New Zealand that are part of the community here. I always joke when we start these off and say, you know, we've got people all over the world. And then you know, usually like right on cue, somebody will pop in and say Hey, it's me from New Zealand or Australia. And it's really great that we're We're able to kind of connect and collaborate and work together from across the world. So I look forward to that, I'm going to bring up on the screen your presentation. So you are sharing your presentation with us today. And, you know, since we don't have a live audience, we're going to just kind of have you roll through your presentation, and share with us, you know, your, your thoughts and your experience and your topic. And then of course, at the end, I will reappear, and no doubt, probably have some questions or comments on my own. And we'll have a little bit of a conversation and then we'll wrap things up. So with that your, your presentation is now on the screen, and you should be able to control it. So I am going to because people are here now to hear you talk, I'm going to disappear. And it will just be you. But I will tell you that while I'm disappeared, I will still be here, I will still be listening. And if you say guy, and I know you're talking about me, not just some random guy, I will reappear and help you if there's any problems or anything at all you need. So with that, thanks so much and take it away.

Balaji Somasundaram  11:07  

Thank you. Thank you. Before we start, we also take this opportunity to express our heartfelt thanks and gratitude to all our mentors, in particular, Matua, Angus MacFarland and Sonia MacFarland from New Zealand Aotearoa New Zealand Aotearoa is the Maori name for New Zealand and Dr. Steven Burgess. Dr. Laurie Digital's and acknowledge the work of of all the pioneers in trauma informed care practices, we have drawn on the expertise of our families, and students. And we want to thank them all. And also everyone who is here today. We would like to acknowledge the traditional and ongoing custodians past, present and emerging of all our countries, we continue to grow because of the seeds you all had planted. Most importantly, we believe this presentation provides an opportunity for us to come together as a community share and CO construct knowledge and information. So in this presentation, we will discuss about the importance of as you see cultural safety, and the related terms such as cultural awareness, cultural sensitivity, cultural humility, and epistemic injustice, and how they can be applied across our educational settings. We explore from our own experiences of how we can promote the mental health of our students through culturally responsive pedagogies, which aligns and incorporates trauma informed care practices. So, we shall start discussing about the concept of culture. So the word culture has a variety of meanings covering a very broad territory, very wide, broad territory. Culture is shared understandings, beliefs, values,  social behavior, customs, and thoughts within a group of people. Culture, as you can see, is dynamic, and mobile, and just keeps changing over time for those individuals. And also for those groups they belong into. In this period of globalization, cultural practices are continually shifting, in order to adapt the new technology and the new situations. And the new context as well. Take for instance, for instance, the cell phone technology, with the usage being the highest in the Asian and African continents. So the culture of rural communities in those continents has naturally changed to accommodate these new technologies, while usage of postal services to communicate is almost non existent these days, cultural practices, they are learned behaviors that we pick up as we grow, and choose to either adapt or leave them behind as we grow older. So that's a brief discussion about the concept of culture. Now narrowing it down. So school culture, we should briefly look into the notion of school culture. The simple definition of school culture would be the way we do things around here in our school. So each school has a culture that's definitely their own. So on a broader note, school culture is a set of values, beliefs and norms that influence the way the teachers, the students, the parents, and the whole community and principals as well think Express, feel and behave in an out of the school compounds. school culture can be demonstrated through various various ways. For example, through symbols, flags, songs, just sing in particular the uniforms they were vision mission and, and their core values the school's core values as well. So school culture is mostly influenced by the school's students, the school students social background. And for example, a school in in an Islamic neighborhood might need the girls of that school to wear hijab, you know, hijabs they cover the face and the head to the schools the whole time they are there. A school's culture is important due to its strong impact on students, teachers, and of course, the administration and the whole community and the principals as well. So, having discussed about what a school culture is, what is a great school culture? So several researchers they have studied the topic of what makes a great school culture. Samuel Samuel Carter, who has done some extensive study about school culture summarizes great school cultures are explicit about what is valued about what is truly good about what they aim for. Through intentional practices and purposeful activities. They help the entire entire community, not just their children, the entire community to strive in the direction. So now, to the topic of cultural safety. Let's look at the origin origin, where it originated from. The term cultural safety was coined by Maori nurse and scholar Dr. Irihapeti Ramsden from Aotearoa, New Zealand. And the notion of cultural safety was developed in response to Maori discontent with medical care in New Zealand, which was right through 1960s 1970s and 1980s. So Maori as as we might know, the indigenous people of Aotearoa, New Zealand. So, Dr. Irihapeti Ramsden, she worked hard to challenge the view that everyone should be cared for in the same way, regardless of who they are. And eventually, the nursing Council of New Zealand endorsed cultural safety as a requirement for nursing and midwifery education. We believe we believe the same principles that are that are applied in the health practices can be applied to educational settings as well. So, what is what is cultural safety, culturally safe practices are recognizing inequalities within the education settings, our schools, our educational systems, by and large, challenging our own practices, assumptions, perceptions of diversity, and carefully examining our own biases and understanding and addressing the power imbalances that could exist within the system and accepting the differences and, and diversity that exists within the system. Cultural safety as a concept has been embraced by scholars in New Zealand and across the across the ditch in Australia and Canada as well, and is in the process of gaining ground in the United States and other countries as well, where it could be useful in informing better pedagogical practices that could then enhance educational outcomes for vulnerable and marginalized students.

Speaker 1  19:12  

So why is cultural safety important and promoting mental health equity, diversity and resilient mindset education settings, culturally safe practices are about social justice, and therefore they are essential to achieve equity, improve educational outcomes, and for creating safe places that allow healing to happen. Within an education setting. This becomes all the more important particularly for those already living on the margins of society influenced by dominant groups. In the absence of culturally safe practices, ethnocentrism may prevail, which may restrict the schools from engaging appropriate play but the children and Families. Therefore, cultural safety challenges us as educators to work collaboratively with our students and families from diverse cultures by using a student centered approach, sharing respect, knowledge, experience, and empathy in relationships. Why trauma is an experience that can impact all people globally, indigenous people experience trauma and distant ways that are linked to the experience of colonization, racism, discrimination, negative stereotyping, poverty, and ill health. One of the criticisms of the current trauma approaches is the limitation and regard to Western definitions of trauma. For example, DSM five, which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual defines trauma as an exposure to actual or threatened death, or serious injury or sexual violence. Indigenous researchers on trauma note that the definition only emphasizes individual actual events for diagnostic purposes, and therefore, it fails to account for long term chronic and complex individual and collective trauma. The risk researchers add that they do not allow for experiences of historical trauma due to assimilate of colonial practices, which have occurred for indigenous populations worldwide. Therefore, to be truly culturally safe, a cultural shift is advocated for educators to identify culturally safe trauma informed care practices to protect and embrace the holistic well being of Indigenous students who have suffered both personal collective and intergenerational trauma, which stems from their indigenous experiences of trauma. This can lead to collective and transformative change in their mental and overall holistic well being. Unpacking culturally safe practices, we shall now start discussing about some culturally safe practices in schools. providing culturally safe care is not a checklist approach, and it does not have an endpoint. Becoming a culturally safe practitioner is an ongoing journey, developing as one engages in deeper level of self awareness and critical reflection, reflection of their own beliefs and values. It is also in recognizing and accepting the historical treatment of indigenous people. And the influence that this has to this continues to have on the present day. So we believe overcoming implicit bias is the first step. Implicit bias operates at the subconscious level, which is outside of a conscious level. And this has a direct influence on most human behavior. The nature of implicit bias is that we don't even know that we have it. And they are triggered through rapid and automatic mental associations, which we make between people, ideas and objects in attitudes and stereotypes we hold about those people, ideas and objects. Therefore, implicit bias is a concept that we as educators need to be aware of, in our attempt to be culturally safe in our practices. implicit biases can both can both be a preference, or an aversion towards certain people, or certain groups of people, they are unconsciously acquired by a person's exposure to explicit and implicit cultural messages via stereotypes expressed and passed on, either by family members, media and other sources of knowledge, and information. For example, studies have shown that teachers show implicit bias against their students of color, expecting them to misbehave more than the white students, and therefore enacting harsher punishments they're caught along with students of color. Students have disabilities were also disproportionately disciplined example, as we can see suspensions and expulsions and corporal punishments. So we really need to challenge ourselves. And it is important to examine our own biases and recognize how it impacts education systems we serve we might have implicit biases because of ethnicity, age, gender, appearance, sexual orientation, disability, socio economic status, religious beliefs, and for so many other reasons. Becoming conscious of these attitudes and biases is the first and foremost step towards Stage, our first step is to accept that we could possibly have some unconscious unconscious bias by acknowledging those feelings and move past them, as no one is going to criticize us if we start this journey. On the contrary, there will be lot of people who will encourage and support us in this amazing journey, which can be really an uplifting experience. For instance, when I was young, I had an unconscious bias against Europeans, that they were dominant. Because I was raised in a family of freedom fighters in India, who oppose colonization, I had my entire schooling and then in a European continent, where I always felt that I did not fit fit them as I felt inferior to them, which affected the way I interacted with them. But many years later, when I went to law school, and university spending more time with my lectures, friends and colleagues from dominant cultures, the way I was cared for at Empower, made me recognize my own unconscious bias, that not all dominant culture, cultural groups can be authoritative. This changed my whole perception about dominant cultural groups. I also want to share the narrative of my African American friend, when this friend son was in the final call, final year of college, the guidance counselor from a dominant culture had asked him what his goal was to become for which my friend's son had enthusiastically shared, that he wanted to become a doctor. Sadly, the response from this guidance counselor was, well, that's a big dream. Let's look at something realistic. At this moment, this voice aspiration crumble and a self esteem was trampled. And as a self guide, a guidance counselor did not believe and he could not accept the fact that he wants to be a doctor. What was saddening was, it seems the counsellor did not even investigate this boy's academic records. And today, several years later, this mom shared that this counselor was proved wrong as a son is now a qualified doctor. Unfortunately, my friend's son's story still repeats globally, but many of us students from diverse cultures, where their dreams and goals are crushed, the birth may have changed. But the implicit biases on students of color, and those with disability are that they are intellectually inferior. But at the same time, we believe that a scope what is done can be undone. Because our brain is malleable. They have the incredible capacity for growth and change. Focusing on our implicit bias will help in recognizing the significant amount of Harm that stems from implicit bias. But sadly, yet we focus more on the explicit forms of the bias. Sarah fewer men have done extensive research on this, and points out that educators need to name implicit or unconscious bias, rather than denying it, denying its existence, before identifying ways to address it. And to hold ourselves accountable. We need a prevention approach and be aware of our own implicit biases can give that

Speaker 1  28:39  

the next process of practice would be moving beyond the position of cultural neutrality. Educators frequently use their own cultural values and points of views to relate and engage with others. Many educators report that they do not discriminate against people and treat all people say regardless of ethnicity, or race. However, this color blindness approach may seem to reject racism. It allows the dominant culture to ignore racism and discrimination, the position of cultural neutrality, why puppeting impartiality actively supports the status quo. Hence, adopting a culturally neutral or a colorblind approach invalidates negative racial experiences, cultural perspectives and traumatic histories. Some authors call this position as dilution of neutrality.

Balaji Somasundaram  29:45  

So, cultural awareness, so cultural awareness is another practice of process. So the fact that we are discussing about implicit bias and moving beyond the cultural neutrality now, cultural awareness and the other concepts which we are about to discuss now. So, they are not standalone practices, we believe they all should be integrated together and apply as one approach trust together to be to be a culturally safe practitioner, all these concepts should be integrated into into one practice. So, cultural awareness. So, cultural awareness is another practice of process, which is which is an understanding basically one's understanding about the differences. So, cultural awareness entails and understanding about cultural elements like, you know, food habits within certain cultures, dress codes, music, religious practices, rituals, social protocols, and so on. There are so many so many things, which could be unique to, to a particular culture. So, cultural awareness, it's, it's, it's learned over time, it just develops over time, we are not born with that knowledge. So, it's important that we get a good understanding of those different elements, which are quite unique and specific to different cultures, for example, and awareness about Hindus. We do not eat beef, and Muslims, they, they do not eat pork, for us, beef, it's sacred. So, we vote we worship cows as God as as a sacred being which produces milk or our day to day which which, which is for our day to day living. So, Hindus do not eat beef. And there there are other religious religious reasons for Muslims not eating pork, the same way sikhs, sikhs majority of the Sikhs are from a state called Punjab which is in north a north of India. So, they have moved across to Canada and many Sikhs, they live in Great Britain as in UK as well. So, they you might have seen they wearing turbans, turbans over their heads, which are practices which are quite unique to those those their religion and there are so many other aspects which which, if we dig in, we will be surprised, which are so unique and specific to each culture. So, cultural sensitivity is another another aspect which we should form part of this approach. So, with this process, we move on from awareness to acceptance. So, cultural sensitivity requires us to accept accept that there are multiple worldviews beliefs and practices. So, the first point is being aware of it and moving on to accepting them. So, accepting that there are multiple worldviews beliefs and practices that everyone is entitled to hold. And no cultural group should be privileged over another. So, communicating with cultural sensitivity with the students and their families in an educational settings, it involves active listening with our hearts and not just yours, and engaging in open and compassionate communication by being mindful of our tone, intonation, body language, which are very important when when you talk to those students and parents. I will share an example recently about cultural awareness and cultural sensitivity sensitivity. So the other day I was in a classroom, so that day was it happened to be it was it was Muharram Muharram, also known as Moharram, el haram. It marks the beginning of the Islamic year. So the classroom teacher, she knew that it was Muslim, and she went in wished an Islamic parent for Muharram, who came in to drop her child. So as you might know, with Muslims, there are Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. So while for Sunni Muslims, this is a day of celebrations. For Shia Muslims. This is a day of mourning, as they mourn the death of a grandson of a Islamic prophet. So though the teachers she did some research and and with good intentions, she had wished the mother I noticed the mother's face. It changed slightly, and she was I thought she felt a bit sad when the teacher had wished her so later when the mom was about to leave, I just approached her and had to introduce myself because I was there in the classroom. But I haven't seen that mother before. So I just introduced myself and had a little chat with the mother. And it just went on. And I came to know that she was a Shia Muslim. And she felt a bit sad about the teacher wishing her I explained to the mother about the teacher's good intention, and also later, to the teacher about the significance of Muharram to Shia Muslims. So for for culturally safe practices, a little research and some background knowledge about the child, and the family would have made a huge difference on the day. Yeah, and

Speaker 1  35:46  

I think it's crucial, like even being mindful of the eye contact thing too. I just wanted to add because certain cultures feel it's rude if you deeply look into their eyes and and coming back to the scenario which you mentioned, I feel the teachers real good intention, intention was sadly not recognized because of the lack of doing a little bit more of research on cultural that

Balaji Somasundaram  36:14  

she was good at hard, meant to meant to wish genuinely honestly

Speaker 1  36:19  

and we know that they had the best interest but unfortunately, the scenario Yes, yeah.

Balaji Somasundaram  36:27  

So, cultural sensitivity and moving on to, from cultural sensitivity to cultural humility, holding cultural humility is another process and is defined as having an interpersonal taking an interpersonal stance, that is other oriented rather than self focused. So this character characterized by respect and lack of superiority towards one's own cultural background and experience. So someone might be part of the mainstream culture or the dominant culture in the classroom rather than then thinking that you know, everything, or we know rather everything being humble, and showing that humility is part of this approach. So cultural humility entails having a respectful and inclusive approach, whereby educators they seek knowledge from their students and their parents and their families regarding their cultural and structural influences, rather than assuming or thinking that they are the experts or are assuming expertise about a culture outside of their own, operating with an assumption about other cultures, as Mira was saying earlier, could lead to holding unconscious unconscious bias towards certain groups. For example, there are some existing discourses about migrants and refugees, a majority of them who moved from war torn Middle Eastern countries, and majority of them who are Muslims, there are some discourses around around the people who are seeking refugee status. So obtaining cultural humility is not a goal. It's an active process, an ongoing way of being in the world, and being in relationship with others. And also being with the self.

Speaker 1  38:34  

I just want to add on to the cultural humility that was, um, remembered about the Maori worldview concepts of ARCO, which means the teachers being the learner, and you teach and learn and seeing your child and the family as an expert. So you learn from them about their lived experiences and their culture. And that way, that reciprocity is shown to you in

Balaji Somasundaram  39:01  

In certain context, you are a learner in other contexts, you are the teacher, you share your knowledge. That's, yeah, that's so

Speaker 1  39:09  

united approach. I just wanted to share that we embrace that concept throughout our practice all the time. And

Balaji Somasundaram  39:15  

we learn from each other and as much as we share our knowledge, we also seek that knowledge actively seeking that knowledge from others,

Speaker 1  39:22  

also addresses the power in imbalances because we show that we are all equal. And we see our children as a whole, holistic individual, and we don't see them and treat them as someone who's below you. You see, treat them with equity as an separate, unique individual 

Balaji Somasundaram  39:42  

that sits  so well within this cultural humility aspect, you know, that you are an active seeker of knowledge rather than you are up in the front and you are there to spread what you know, you know, to your students, and it's like, it's like a social constructivist approach. You know, you construct knowledge from different sources out there in the context, and it's just not you are the source of knowledge. 

Speaker 1  40:06  

Exactly. And it also reminds me that, as teachers, it's always good to get to the eye level, the Knee level of the children's level. So you show that your presence is visible, and that connection is happening there, rather than you standing as a tall person and Children looking up. So I will and I like that, particularly in early childhood settings, especially children. In that age group group, you get down to the level and your presence and body tone. I mean, you're in

Balaji Somasundaram  40:39  

for the for the interaction that lovely. about to happen. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So this, this, this discussion nicely flows into our next concept, which is, which is called epistemic injustice, epistemic injustice. The term as such was coined by Professor Miranda Africa, in 1998 1990s. I think it's 1998, which, loosely speaking, refers to an injustice done to someone as a knower, or, or or as a person, as a transmitter of knowledge. In simple words, someone someone is unfairly judged, to not to have the knowledge. Epistemology, as as we know, is the theory of knowledge with questions in the form of who is the knower? Is the teacher up in the front? Is the is the teacher is the one the person in the classroom who's the Knower? I would think we would think certainly not. What is the source? What is a valid source of knowledge? So Mirianda, Miranda, Fricka. She just questioned that source in epistemology in the theory of epistemology, so epistemic injustice. According to Fricka, listeners, when people with more social power being assigned a greater degree of credibility against people with less social power being assigned a lesser degree of credibility in education settings. Yeah, it happens quite a lot. epistemic injustice would involve devaluing a teacher or a student's capacity to process or generate knowledge based on you know, high identity prejudice, that can that can relate to factors like race, gender, accent, an age as well. So for example, male teachers, who are dominant by numbers in a secondary school, rejecting a female female colleagues suggestions. When a teacher or a student is harmed in their capacity as a knower, it can damage their agency. And also it can certainly lead to marginalization. So, Professor Fricker identifies two forms of epistemic injustice. So testimonial and hermeneutical testimony, as such, involves someone sharing the knowledge with someone else, you might have heard of people, you know, as past lawyers, we have been, we have been part of many testimonies which have been given in court you might have heard people giving their testimony in the in the witness box, standing in the witness box, and and sharing as to what had happened for which they were part of or something that that they have heard. So that's a testimony, a statement rather. So you might have heard people giving their testimony, a student, a teacher, or a teacher aide, or a parent suffers from testimonial injustice, when their testimony their sharing of knowledge is judged to be not credible, or less credible, not only children's testimonies in those instances, but also the interpretative frameworks, their thinking processes are at risk of rejection by adults, you're just cutting them off, you're suppressing their voice.

Speaker 1  44:17  

I just wanted to add to this when you said that both teachers and teachers I mean, parents sharing in a group I once remember about one of the support teacher teach rates I am only a teacher right. So that shows how she felt her voice was not heard. So we had to say

Balaji Somasundaram  44:41  

the power struggle, power imbalance as you can see, that's

Speaker 1  44:44  

prevailing in that system. So she felt that her voice is not equal or valid as the hierarchy of the group is. So many of us feel that we are only this we are only parent we are only teach right so we are made to 

Balaji Somasundaram  45:01  

The system  makes us feel that it's not that, you know, it's something they are born with the interactions the way they're being treated makes them feel that way. Yes. That's from my experience. Yeah.

Speaker 1  45:14  

And I think that's so we as educators have real accountability and responsibility to make the real shift to make them feel that they have the voice equally, they have the knowledge and see them as expertise with the IEP s can be certainly sometimes

Balaji Somasundaram  45:33  

intimidating individual education.

Speaker 1  45:36  

Yeah, individual education plans could be intimidating for many of our parents, and they don't want to come because of seeing the whole bunch of people wearing different sports expert hat saying, I'm from the Ministry of Education, and I'm so and so. And you feel so small as a parent thinking that you're not valid, even though you're the expert of your expert. Yeah, that child but you're made to feel that you're just there to be able to be the receiver of the news passed on and transmission pass real consultation. So I think all this would be a good thing for us to take on and reflect. Consider.

Balaji Somasundaram  46:15  

It's an ongoing in, in crystal approach, constantly reflecting self reflecting on our own practices, validating

Speaker 1  46:24  

multiple perspectives. It's okay to disagree, but it's important to validate and listen empathetically to perspective is different from our

Balaji Somasundaram  46:34  

Yeah, absolutely. So as an example, we will consider an assault incident reported that had happened in the playgrounds in a school during the lunch break. So a student from a marginalized group is a victim of a physical attack by another student from a dominant group, just just an example. So two witnesses, the principal is seeking some statement as to learn about what really happened there. So two witnesses, one from the marginalized group, and another one student from the dominant group, give contrary, contradicting statements about what actually happened there about who the perpetrator is, in majority of the incidents, testimony of students from marginalized groups, they are quieten invalidated, interrupted and intro distorted in in our schools. So it these type of experiences it can cause crippling an entrenched feelings of negative self worth in those students. They also suppress their voice, we are also actively suppressing the voice. And as we were sharing before that interpretative capacities, so that that's testimonial injustice, which, according to Professor Fricker, happens a lot not in just educational settings across other other other areas as well. So the other form hermeneutical. Injustice is about the prejudice that's caused due to someone's inability to fully understand or communicate an experience hermeneutics, as we know is about the theory of interpretation. So it a nice example, and would be from the Women's Liberation Movement in the US from the 1970s. So Wendy Sanford, from Princeton, New Jersey, she suffered severe depression following the birth of a son. She constantly felt blamed, blamed by her husband, blamed by herself. She had no way of explaining or even conceptualizing, conceptualizing her experiences, she didn't know what was happening, what was going on in her mind and in a body. Only when she shared her feelings in a women's workshop later, did the concept of postpartum depression became known to her. So this was a relatively new concept, this this concept of postpartum depression in the 1970s, even even to medical health professionals, even the mental health professionals at that time, she then found that she had a new way to make sense of her experiences, and communicate her the way she felt her body felt to other people. So when we Sanford in that case, that was, in those beginning stages was hermeneutically, disadvantaged in not being able to name her difficulties as postpartum depression. So in schools in many schools, we have students, you know, just migrating from another country who speak a different language, who absolutely have no mainstream language or or do not have the bedroom knowledge to understand And you know incidents like cyber bullying or even verbal bullying because they don't have the language, they would find it difficult to convey their thoughts to the the teachers or the teacher aides or any adult who is present. So this form of injustice, Professor Miranda Fricka calls is hermeneutic injustice as it was sharing before. So as a way out, trusting one another and having open and respectful, responsible and reciprocal interactions without prior judgments, and and also being mindful of being cognizant of those implicit biases would address these forms of epistemic injustice. So, finally, to the concept of cultural idioms, the term idioms of distress, rough refers to the varieties of ways people express their distress in different settings. So in any given culture, children and parents have their own ways of expressing their distress. Such idioms can be can be misunderstood, when they are interpreted literally. transcultural psychiatrists, they suggest educators need to act in to both denotative and connotative meanings of language, the styles of emotion expression, and linguistic idioms. denotation is when they mean what they say literally, the word what it means, connotation is created when they mean something else, there is something hidden there. So children may use as you know, children always they just copy model as to what they hear from their adults parents said they may use their own cultural idioms learn from their adults at home to express their distress. So some exam it is really important that teachers gain some understanding at least about these cultural idioms. Some examples of cultural idioms include in New Zealand, we have we have a large number of students from Syria and Afghanistan and Iran, given refugee status in the last few years, who might say the following a student with some suicidal thoughts, I would say it manna anamorphic, which means literally, I wish to sleep and not wake up. That's the exact meaning of it. But it's important to understand the mental state of the students, which could be suicidal. And as the as the, as literally this idiom would mean that they are very tired and would like to sleep. So now the one Kamatni Kalbi which literally means in the literal sense, may have the squeezing, however it conveys a state of worry, if the literal meaning is taken, this could be mistaken for a heart attack. Haiti, students from Haiti, Creole Creole is the language who could say dead party for forgetfulness, the literal meaning of dead party is my head has left but they just use that for for just conveying Oh, I just forgot. So those cultural idioms, even in our language, we speak a language called Tamil or your delegate. Sorry for using Tamil here, Thala ye vidika pori iruke , which means my head is about to explode, which literally means I'm in a kind of a tight moment of distress at this point. So it is it is really important to gain some understanding of the intended meanings of the idioms of distress for for culturally safe practices, to, for example, to get a better understanding of idioms of distress. One of the teachers we work across as special education advisors we work across with schools in Singapore, India, Malaysia, and you you United Arab Emirates, so one of the teachers in a school in Singapore, she she uses a Google Translator because she's got many children in a classroom from from different cultures. She uses a Google Translator and has discussions if she notices something different. She just has that open communication and honest communication with the families to ensure that the children are safe and well.

Speaker 1  54:41  

So now finally, we would like to share how we implemented culturally safe and trauma informed care practices in Aotearoa, New Zealand by using both the neuroscience lens and the indigenous perspectives. So we have made a

Balaji Somasundaram  54:58  

Treaty of Waitangi It is the founding document of Aotearoa, New Zealand based on what I mean it was signed between the Crown and the Maori chiefs back in 1840. So that was the base that was the founding document. And it has three principles, partnership, protection and participation. And we

Speaker 1  55:18  

have shown in this PowerPoint like how the tenets of neuroscience and treaty of principles align, and how we implemented culturally safe practices. So firstly, we took into account the historical and indigenous bicultural context of Aotearoa New Zealand. Then we incorporated the principles of Treaty of Waitangi, which is a founding document of New Zealand by valuing indigenous Maori worldviews of trauma, mental health, wellbeing, and healing practices. Most importantly, we consider our own beliefs, history and life experiences that can impact our learners. We constantly strive and build genuine and respectful partnerships and connections and commitments with our Maori students. And they found our families Hapu and Evie tribe by protecting kaupapa Maori protocols, which is tikana for example kapahaka, and poi, which is a traditional Maori performing art forms of dance and chanting, and the use whakaPapa genealogy ra Ranga. That refers to weaving using hara KK, which is a flat plan that is at the heart of Maori weaving, which also symbolizes family and stress the importance of the plant and Maori life. We

Balaji Somasundaram  56:37  

we are using Maori terms here so whanau is for families for whakapapa, which is so significant within Maori culture stands for the genealogy, so ra ranga which means weaving, which is which is very significant cultural art for Maori, they use harakeke A, which is a plant and it's a sacred plant. Even before cutting the plant, they have to say a karakia a prayer before they cut the plant and use it for weaving. And kapa Haka is a traditional cultural art in Maori culture,

Speaker 1  57:18  

so we thank you for explaining that we embrace the Maori worldview concept of arco which we discussed earlier, which refers to the traditional Maori reciprocal relationship, where the educator is also learning from the student, meaning both teaching and learning and be valued Kanohi keerThea, which refers to seen face which stresses the importance of educators having face to face interactions with their families and their children, be valued and normalized Te reo, which is a Maori language and use waiata which means the traditional Maori songs and chants in our day to day connections with our students, by empowering our Maori students to take pride and ownership of their land, language culture, identity learning, and active, empathetic listening to their voices. And stories enhance their self esteem, which is smaller and sense of agency. It also paved the way for restoring safety, reestablishing trust, and promoting resilient minds and predictability, which is so important. Yeah. And we valued strength based holistic approaches that supported co regulatory practices by taking culture into account and at the same time, being aware of our own and collective nervous systems that is so

Balaji Somasundaram  58:43  

important recognizing the adult nervous system. So we stay calm and composed when we are in that space when we are interacting with a child who could be dysregulated. So

Speaker 1  58:55  

be not being reactive, but rather being responsive and responsive. So we implemented the kaupapa Maori culture framework, the Hikiral schema, which we were honored to be a part of the advisory group with Matoba, Angus MacFarlane and Sonia MacFarlande which is grounded in racial equity and color and cultural responsible mentors. Yeah, and to say there are many measures and consultation and their guidance is what keeps us really feel on the right path to the state. So, we really owe this to our mentors. So honoring the collective wisdom and cultural and community specific strategies for coping and maintaining well being supported us to learn about the funds of knowledge and explore the culturally specific healing and wellness practices and strategies that our students and follow families bring into our classrooms. And this validated they lived in Speed insists, we embedded Maori folktales myths and legends and psycho education to help students understand what's happening in our bodies and minds to build resilience and hope. There

Balaji Somasundaram  1:00:14  

are so many Maori folktales. They are historical tales called purakau. in Maori, and their past message in them, you learn so much when you read a story when you read a Purakau  with the child, and

Speaker 1  1:00:27  

they're really like a good town are passed on as

Balaji Somasundaram  1:00:30  

a gift, which is passed on our generation by your ancestors. So in Maori mythology, we walk into the future. With a Back to the Future, you always look into your back, and you walk the other way so that you just keep learning from your past, past,

Speaker 1  1:00:53  

embracing the past is really important. So we ran informal workshops for families Fano by embedding a cultural lens, at the same time applying Educational Neuroscience, AEN, to help understand the importance of regulating adult nervous system before striving to support our children. So helping enabling and empowering a foreigner to understand why certain things are happening and how we can overcome that. So that's how our journey started. And it's still ongoing. And as we said, there's no end point. And we believe inquiry based inquiry based collaboration, but that children fano, and communities. So we are really blessed to be in this amazing ongoing journey.

Balaji Somasundaram  1:01:44  

So the important source, from whom we learn from every day, they are there in the classrooms, there are children's tamariki, as we call them in Maori mokopuna mokopuna. So they are the one significant source of what we just keep learning every day.

Speaker 1  1:02:03  

And I also want to approach Dr. YUI,  thing every child needs a special person and likewise, all human beings needs that social connection. And that's so really important for all our well being, because we are wired for social connections. Absolutely.

Balaji Somasundaram  1:02:22  

So concluding thoughts. So over the years of our experiences as lawyers, special advisors to many schools in India, Singapore, Malaysia, and United Arab Emirates, and and special educators in autism and aspiring educational psychologists and learning support coordinators, which is our work today, we are constantly reminded that the deepest and most consistent pain for our students comes from the lack of filth, safety, belonging and disconnection. So moving beyond awareness of unconscious bias, and implicit associations, to long term bias reversal and inclusive behaviors requires changing organizational practices. It may start from us, but the change should happen as a whole. So organizational behaviors, practices, plus practical interventions to address personal biases, and embrace proactive approaches to working with people who are different from the majority group. Through this presentation, we hope educators could develop a set of culturally safe practices examined previously held knowledge, beliefs, attitudes and understandings and develop readily transferable skills for practice in any setting. We would like to finish with a quote from Dr. Dr. Atul Gawande, an American researcher, surgeon, and presently the Assistant Administrator of the United States Agency for International Development for global health better as possible. It does not take genius, it takes diligence, it takes moral clarity, it takes ingenuity and our walk, it takes a willingness to try. Thank you and namihi

Speaker 1  1:04:20  

Let the uniqueness of the Child Guide us in amahi  and we believe his work and we believe change begins with us and we need to be the changes and the change we want to see. So thank you all for being with us today. And we feel so honored and be truly truly grateful. To each and every one of you, we learn from you and be growth from you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you once again guy for giving us this incredible opportunity. valuable opportunity. Thank you. Thank you.

Guy Stephens  1:04:49  

Absolutely and thank you so I've magically appeared here and I'm gonna I'm gonna make your screen go away but before I do, I loved where you were you close this and Uh, you know, there's something that you've probably heard me say a lot. And, you know, certainly I'm not the only one to say this. But you know, one of our strong values, you know, here is about, when we know better, we do better. And you know, it's important. I mean, this work is sometimes hard work. And we're sometimes pointing to things that aren't working and saying, We've got to do better. And it's easy to kind of look at that and take that internally to as criticism, but it's really not, it's about all of us, we're all on a journey, I am further along in my journey than I was a month ago, or a year ago, or five years ago. But I'm constantly trying to learn and again, do better. And I think that takes a lot of courage. So I'm gonna make your screen go away here. And we can, we can chat for a second, and certainly let you go here. So if you want to, you're more than welcome to close your presentation, I move that and now you can see me again. And I know it's a little a little strange when you're presenting to what seems like an abyss, sometimes as you're just looking at your screen and don't know that anybody's there. But I assure you that as we air this about a week, that we're going to have people watching it, and my hope is always not only watching it, but But reflecting on it, sharing it, part of the reason we do these events, is we really do want to encourage people not only to attend them, but to share them with others. And, you know, as I reflect on kind of that, that closing statement that you gave, and, you know, kind of our kind of guiding philosophy here around kind of doing better. So much of what you talked about today, is really about that journey. And again, this is not not intended to be critical of ourselves, we have to give ourselves grace. But at the same point, we've got to grow. So really inspiring. I've taken some notes and probably have a couple of questions for you as well. But that was a fantastic presentation. And by the way, I have to say that I actually really liked the way you to present together because you you have a really great dynamic and energy. And, you know, that's a true testament because, you know, you my wife and I we might not present so well. But but you know, the two of you are amazing together. And you know, you can definitely feel that. So let me just kind of get through a couple of questions. I took some notes as we went. And a lot of them were just kind of reflecting on some of the things that you shared and that you said, or just that, you know, stuck out to me, and one of the first things that I wrote down was, you know, that story about the guidance counselor, you know, saying hey, well, let's be more realistic. And it just really hit me because how many times, you know, are we you know, saying things and doing things to kids that really are harmful and can hurt and you know, and again, it's not always a matter of intention. But the impact, you know, and I think always being mindful of, you know, you know, is our intent being reflected in our impact is really, really critical. And I thought about that statement, of course, you know, there's a part of me that felt a little angry, there was a part of me that, you know, just really felt upset by it. But I think, again, you know, you know, this is about, you know, change, and this is about support. And this is about even realizing the impact of things that, you know, as you talked about, you know, why some of these things happen, that we're not even aware, you know, we're not even aware that some of these things are happening. So, that story just, you know, kind of really hit me and, and I love the course, to hear now that the this the son is a doctor, and let no one let no one stop me from following a dream, a feeling, you know, I grew up, you know, I'm, Gosh, 53 now, and I grew up in a time where, you know, oftentimes our parents and our families of course, this can vary by by culture by many things, but we're encouraging and pushing us in various directions, you know, you should do this, you should do that, you know, here are respectable, you know, things that you should study. And, you know, I've become the father that says, Follow the thing that you love, follow the thing that excites you follow your dream, you know, and maybe it's just that lesson that I've kind of learned, which is, you know, really is about at the end of the day, doing something that's meaningful to you. Yeah, so So I felt that and heard that but that story just really hit me from so many perspectives. You know, a little bit of frustration and whatnot in here. But But then that hope of some Just

Balaji Somasundaram  1:10:01  

thinking about those words. So I'm just recalling a probe. It's called theorical in our language Tamil, which goes this way. Do you know SUTA Poon hula room? Or are they now we know SUTA vado, which means your scar or any injury, even from a fire burn would just go away in years. But are they now in also overdue, but a scar you make, or you you you just like inflict on other person through your tongue will never go away. Just stays with them forever. So it's just, you know, implies how mindful and careful you are, it should be when you use your words.

Speaker 1  1:10:48  

And also I wanted to add, like, Thank you for the deep reflection I truly think like many of my families and friends have shared like from other cultures. For example, if they go into a uni, in our lecture room, they would be made even by the looks, what are you doing in a Master's class? So how come like surprising look, whether it's intentional or unintentional, but the look makes you feel so uncomfortable. And you obviously, as a person from a color, you feel you're out of place, and alpha mental. Sonia MacFarlane always says you don't need to have bullets at some times you feel the wave. You feel that you don't belong, that sense of belonging is slightly. So you can obviously feel and likewise, our children feel from our teachers tone body language, they don't need to even use the look, they give it to you from a student who's different. They can make you feel

Guy Stephens  1:11:50  

no, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I think anytime that anyone you know, says something about something that we're already mindful of, or already feel or already had been harmed by? The impact is so great. You know, you know, if you have a feeling going into something that, that you have doubts, so you feel like you don't belong, you know, to have that, you know, affirmed in some way by someone. I mean, it's hard to imagine much more painful than that. And, you know, biology, I love the saying that you shared, of course, I will not try to say that back in. Because, you know, I don't think I would be able to get all the presentation right there. But but perhaps at some point, you can you can send it to me in in print, I'd love to see that. I love that. Yeah, but you know, absolutely, I mean, these things that, you know, we've experienced and lived through the other thing that you were saying here, something just kind of lit off with me, because one of the things that you're doing is you're taking this neuroscience piece, and you're taking it in, in with us and, you know, I was thinking marriage we were talking about, like, the things we say and the impact. And then I was thinking about, like, goat let's go a step further than that, you know, one of the things that, you know, we would probably readily agree on is the fact that when we become dysregulated, when our stress levels are high, and we become dysregulated, that's manifests in a lot of different ways. But I don't know a human alive, that has an in a moment of dysregulation, when, you know, they are really feeling dysregulated they are certainly not in a state of homeostasis, they are under a lot of stress. It is those moments where we often say things that we would not in our right mind, say, and of course, you know, from a neuroscience standpoint, I mean, we can kind of understand why we know when we come dysregulated what's happening with our cortex, what's happening in terms of us being, you know, in a state where we're really responding more from, you know, a limbic or, you know, your amygdala and, you know, kind of these these responses. But if anything, you know, while that shows the connection, because, you know, our if our, if our likelihood of saying something could be very harmful when we are in a dysregulated state, and knowing the impact that that can have, it really underscores the importance of self regulation of CO regulation of, of all of these things that we might talk about in the context of Educational Neuroscience, the ability to be tuned in and understand our own thoughts, feelings, sensations, what is it like when we become dysregulated? Because again, is is, you know, as you said, so, so well, you know, that damage can last a lifetime. So, I love that intersection you bring into this discussion, because I don't think it's something I've heard really brought into this discussion. And again, you know, I know you have mentors that probably have been bringing some of this in but I've not really heard this before, and I appreciate it, because it really does make you think that you know I happen to be a big fan of Dr. Search anchors work. And in fact, had the opportunity last night he joined us for a book study we've been doing. Yeah, yeah, I mean, absolutely fantastic, you know, to hear what he has to share about this, but that idea of self reg that idea of, you know, stress and the impact that stress can have on us. And when you align that with, you know, why cultural safety matters, you know, yeah, so anyway, all of that is just to say, it's genius, the way that you're pulling this together, and I think it's really meaningful. And, you know, I appreciate the way you you,

Balaji Somasundaram  1:15:45  

I always love the incident, Dr. Stuart Shanker shares, you know, when he and his dog, they almost got drowned. And they barely made it to the shore, and Dr. Shankar son who saw this came running towards them. And and Dr. Shankar was relieved, ah, he noticed and he's, he's just coming to, you know, save us rescue us. And he ran straight to the dog. He just ignored Dr. Shankar, he used to finally share this incident in all this in all his webinars and presentations, and he used to have such a big laugh.

Guy Stephens  1:16:28  

Yeah, yeah, he's absolutely got amazing stories, but But I think, you know, again, you know, our state of dysregulation and our ability to understand the importance of stress and how it impacts us, and the importance of regulation. Because it all relates, this all relates, you know, the, the anger and the hate that you sometimes hear, again, it's this deep state of dysregulation and sometimes comes from places that, you know, you know, even the the people that seem very aggressive about these things, are really in a place of fear and dysregulation. And, you know, I think back to Steven Porges, and think about, you know, the thing he often says is, if you want to make the world a better place, you start by making everybody feel safer, right? And that's really key, I think, to when we're talking about, you know, cultural safety when we're talking about inclusion when we're talking about, you know, because when people perceive threats, even when they're not. My grandfather used to say that, that, you know, perception is nine tenths of reality, there are a lot of faulty perceptions based on many things, and mirror, I love that you were sharing your own kind of, you know, background and, you know, your your, you know, when you were in school, and yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, really critical, critical work here. And you touched on some things that I think are topics here a lot. And again, you know, expectations, it's not just a matter of, you know, race and religion and many differences. But, you know, of course, we work commonly in kind of neurodiversity, you know, individuals that are neuro divergent, and, you know, being wired differently, thinking differently, you know, when even when you were talking about, like, cultural differences, like eye contact, well, from a neurodivergent perspective, like, eye contact, maybe physically painful, you know, and the way that you, you share that, and what I heard, and what I gathered from a lot of what you were saying was, you know, it really is about taking the time to know better. You know, you mentioned kind of like, it's okay to disagree, but we should validate others. And this has been a fantastic presentation, and what I love, again, that the two of you together just really created a great dynamic with this. So let me let me ask you just a question. So someone joining us to watch this, and they're going to be watching live another day, but somebody's watching this live right now, or watching this later back on YouTube, that says, like, yeah, you know, this all resonates with me, I want to do better. Where do I start? You know, what, what would you say to somebody that, you know, is, is realizing that gee, you know, and again, a lot of it's well, intention, you know, you talked about neutrality and moving beyond neutrality, and that's such a big point. Because people, how often do we hear things like, well, I treat everybody the same? I don't see this. I don't see that, which of course, you know, you you see, you perceive you have, you know, bias you have experiences that, you know, all of these things exist. You know, we certainly win. You know, there was a lot of, I think, positive efforts around, pointing out some of these issues. I mean, the Black Lives Matter work that was being done. And people said, well, all lives matter. Well, you know, this idea again that, you know, and there was always that analogy that I thought was really good. And it was kind of like, well, of course, yeah, all lives matter. But, you know, it was a house on fire kind of analogy that, you know, a fire truck doesn't come straight down every house on the block, it goes to where there's a fire, we need to put our attention, you know, where there are issues. And, you know, again, even with good intentions and feeling like, Well, I'm a good person, I, I'm neutral, you know? So tell me, I know, I'm better jabbering on a little bit here. But what what do you say to somebody that's, like, you know, this resonates with me, I hear it? Where do I start?

Balaji Somasundaram  1:20:43  

So we would suggest if, if that person is a classroom teacher, go back into your classroom? Think about all your students. How far how well, do you know about each and every one of your students? So what what thinking I wouldn't, we wouldn't even start with biases, what thinking you have about each one of those students background, the way they dress up, the religion they belong, to? The way they eat, the way they dress up? What What thoughts do you have in your minds, you're holding thoughts, and then reflect on those thoughts, and see if they are positive, or negative, or if those thoughts are in any way interfering with the way you engage or the way that the perception you have about the child.

Speaker 1  1:21:46  

So basically, it also starts but as we said, before, guide seven self awareness, getting to know your learner plus being aware of when you start reflecting, you become more aware, in a deeper level of critical thinking, what your intention may be good, but unintentionally, as we say, the subconscious unconscious level, what thoughts were you holding? And how was it because we often we are quick to just

Balaji Somasundaram  1:22:19  

the next moment we start judging judging people.

Speaker 1  1:22:22  

There's a human tendency is that it could be for protection, or it could be for survive any reason as soon as we see a person our brains ticking, like this person can be trusted? Or is he going to harm so many things are happening at the same time, so but when we take time to reflect, that's where we get become conscious of how we can I will just share

Balaji Somasundaram  1:22:44  

an example about like, a few weeks ago, I went into school for for a PD for a professional development workshop on a Saturday. So the school was closed, the head teacher or the principal who opened the door for me. The moment she saw me, she asked, Where do I sign? Because many of many of the Indians in New Zealand, they run courier business, the moment she showed me, she saw me she thought I was there to deliver a package. So the next question she was asked was, where do we sign? Where's the package? Sorry, ma'am. I'm here to you know, here for the workshop. You know, that I'm not I'm not saying that it is a negative bias. But but her internal mindset that Indians, they are here, he's here to deliver a package. So those sorts, it didn't hurt me in any way. But I'm just trying to, you know, sure.

Speaker 1  1:23:43  

We could be assumption of a student's like, especially with those with disabilities, often teachers would not give a task thinking like he or she may not be able to finish it, or they may not be able to, because they have an assumption thinking he might not be able

Balaji Somasundaram  1:23:59  

to do points of reference, they would call the thinking that you already have about a disability about

Speaker 1  1:24:08  

color about the age, we think like, oh, this person is too old, he can't do it, but actually, they might be bringing it. So those quick.

Guy Stephens  1:24:21  

Yeah, you brought up another really great point. And it got me thinking about a, a session that I sat in recently talking about self awareness. And it talked a little bit about kind of, you know, breaking down self awareness into kind of internal and external, you know, what we know about who we are, and then how others might perceive us. And, you know, that gets into a conversation about, you know, does our, you know, does our intendant do our intended impact meet, but, you know, self awareness to me. Well, there was an interesting statistic in this and this statistic was that this research group, kind of put some, some quantitative of data into trying to kind of assess self awareness. And what they found was a very high number of people felt they were so self aware. But a very small number actually met their criteria for self awareness. And it reminds me of this idea that, you know, driving, you know, here in the United States and driving across the world, with people that drive off and think that they are great drivers, but all the other drivers are not so great. And self awareness is kind of saying, I think we often think that we're all self aware, and that we're tuned in. But the truth is that we're often not, and that reflection, you know, when we, you know, how do we get there, we get there through reflection. So I think some great starting advice, and I'm sure the three of us could probably talk about this for probably another hour. But we have kind of come to our time limit here. And I do want to be mindful of your time. I mean, I know it's early in the morning, there, your day is starting, my day is on the other end right now. But so I'm going to be probably going off to figure out what I'm having for dinner here soon. But I really greatly appreciate you from across the world on the other side of the world. And isn't it amazing that, you know, we can have this conversation and share this, but to bring your insights and experience and philosophy to all of us and, and what I kept hearing, in your words, you know, about, you know, really respecting following the lead of children and learning and knowing who they are, I think it's so meaningful for the work that we do here. And I think the work that is needed to make the world a better place, frankly. So anyway, with lots of gratitude, I want to thank you both for being here, I do want to give you a chance, if there's any final words you want to leave us with, it's always nice to give you an opportunity for, you know, one last thought here. And I'll give you both that opportunity. And, you know, mirror, I'm gonna start with you. So if you have any final words of wisdom, that you'd like to leave us with

Speaker 1  1:27:03  

grateful again, guy, I actually have lost birds, because I've feeling so blessed to be with you and with everyone who's here with us today. And thank you all for all the amazing work you do collectively and individually, and so grateful. And once again, I want to reiterate, it's all about self safety, connection, and belonging. So let's make our kids feel belong and safe. And that's all I wanted to say. So fantastic.

Guy Stephens  1:27:34  

Thank you so much, and, and Bowser, any any final words that you have. So

Balaji Somasundaram  1:27:39  

When When Me, I wouldn't take long. So when we were just talking about self awareness, I would suggest a book from the 1970s by the great British philosopher, Jacob Bronski. The book is called the ascent of man. So where he talks about people having a public life and the private life. So the outline is what what are the things that we might do in public when you put on the public face? And what are the things that we might do differently when we have the private face. So I would suggest, you know, for people to have a have a even have a read the summary of the book, it's a great point for for that concept of self awareness we were just discussing about.

Guy Stephens  1:28:23  

That's fantastic. That's great. Well, thank you both. Again, we're gonna say goodbye to our audience that's watching live, even though they're not watching right now live. And I'm gonna ask you guys to stick around, I'm gonna hit the button to stop us here in a second. But I just want to say thank you to everybody that took the time out of their day to day to join us and watch this event. And of course, I meant to ask you and probably meant to share this as well. But is there any place that people can go if they want to connect with you or learn more about your work? How might people be able to connect with you? We

Speaker 1  1:28:53  

can give an email in contact address and anything they need from us more than happy to collaborate and share guy. Okay,

Guy Stephens  1:29:01  

so sounds great. And I'm going to actually take a look here and see. Well, I'll tell you what I can share that with folks. If you're interested in connecting. I don't have it here at my fingertips right now. But we'll certainly share your information if folks are interested in connecting or sometimes people ask for if you'd be willing to share the slides. So

Unknown Speaker  1:29:23  

any other resources from

Guy Stephens  1:29:24  

Excellent, excellent. Well, we're gonna say goodbye to the people that are watching and you guys can hold on here for a second. So thanks again for joining us and we will see you again next time. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you

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