AASR Live
A podcast from the Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint
AASR Live
Balance Auditory Exercises; Patterned, Repetitive, Rhythmic Movement for Everyone
Join us for “Balance Auditory Exercises; Patterned, repetitive, Rhythmic Movement for Everyone” with Meagan Baldwin.
Meagan is a Bal-A-Vis-X practitioner/trainer, a fierce advocate for her child with a disability, and an educator with 26 years of experience as a public educator in general and special education.
Bal-A-Vis-X stands for Balance, Auditory, Vision, and eXercises. The program consists of 200+ exercises, each rooted deeply in rhythm. They range in difficulty from one hand passing/receiving a single sandbag to both hands bouncing/catching four racquetballs in a specified sequence. Partner exercises may call for six balls to be simultaneously in motion. Others combine bags or balls with feet patterns.
Guy Stephens 0:11
Well hello again and welcome to the Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint Live Series. My name is Guy Stevens, the executive director of the Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint. Excited to have you here with us today. We're coming with another, I think amazing guest and interview that we're going to be doing today. A little bit of background for those of you that might not be familiar with the Alliance, the Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint, started about four and a half years ago, really began around the issue of restraint and seclusion use in schools across the country. What I would say to you is that our, our mission is always kind of growing and expanding to a new degree. While we're certainly very focused on things like restraint and seclusion, it's really broader than that. It's restraint, seclusion, suspension, expulsion, corporal punishment. And even more broadly, kind of all the things that are often done to kids very often in the name of behavior. We're advocating for changes in policies and laws, and really spend a lot of time trying to educate people about what are the better alternatives, what are the better things we can do, aside from a lot of the punitive approaches that not only are ineffective, but really cause a lot of harm in many cases. So that's who we are. And we are excited to be here with you today for another live event, I always have the great honor and privilege of introducing people and introducing these people's work that I think so highly of and today is no exception. I've got today with me, Meagan Baldwin, who is here talking about Bal-A-Vis-X. And I'm going to tell you more about Meagan in a second here. But I do want to let you know that as always, these events are being recorded. So, if you can't watch the whole thing right now, don't worry, you'll be able to go back later watch it on Facebook, YouTube or on LinkedIn. And of course, we always make it available as an audio only podcast. So, if you want to just listen on the go, you'll be able to listen, you might miss some of the visual stuff that we might do here. But at the same time, you'll be able to take a listen. So, know that you can do that. And of course, we do these really in hopes that you will share these as well. So, if you're a parent, you know, share these with, you know, other parents, share them with your schools or your educators, if you're a teacher, administrator, share them with other people in your schools. That's how we make change, we make change when we share good ideas. And today, you're going to be in for a treat with some more good ideas. So, with all that said, we will go ahead and get started here. And let me introduce to you our very special guests that we have here today. Very excited to have Meg Baldwin with us. And we're gonna be talking a little bit about something called about Bal-A-Vis-X. But let me tell you a little bit about Meg. And then we're going to dive in for a bit of an interview, we're going to talk about what Bal-A-Vis-X is. And I think you're going to have a lot of fun and learn some things hopefully along the way as well. Megan is a Bal-A-Vis-X practitioner and trainer, a fierce advocate for her child with a disability, and an educator with 26 years of experience as a public in public education and in general and special education. So, this is work that not only you've been doing for some time, but things that you're very passionate about. I had the opportunity, I think to meet you for the first time in person, I think was in Nashville, is that right? Yep, yeah, we got to meet in Nashville. And, you know, I had been hearing about your work. And subsequently I've heard more and seeing you increasingly in more and more places, taking your work around the country. So, we're gonna, we're gonna, talk a bit here in a second. And I just want to say to people that are watching live. And I happen to know that we have a mutual friend that's watching live because they've already jumped in and done what I was going to ask people to do next, which is tell us who you are and where you're from. So, we always like to see when we start these events live, who's watching. You can share with us, you know, where you're from, or your role or anything you'd like to share. We always like to see that. And of course, we have, we have a really diverse audience here. We have a lot of parents, we have a lot of self-advocates, we have a lot of educators, teachers, administrators, paraprofessionals, and psychologists, occupational therapists, speech language pathologists, really broad audience of people, but the thing that unifies us all is this idea that you know, we can do better and that there are better things that we can do, which is a perfect cue up for you and your work. We'll share with you, Ginger, Ginger, who we both know and love, said “Meg is truly gifted! A trauma informed champion helping children heal every day!” So, if my introduction wasn’t enough for you, Ginger, thank you. That's fantastic. So, Meg, welcome, and thanks for joining us today.
Meagan Baldwin 4:37
Thanks for having me.
Guy Stephens 4:38
Yeah, really excited. Really excited to learn more about Bal-A-Vis-X but before we get there, I'd like to learn a little bit more about you. So, you know, we've met, and you know, kind of are working in similar spaces and trying to affect similar changes. But you know, I've not really had a chance to sit down with you and talk to you more. So hopefully we'll have an opportunity to do that. But I'd love to learn a little bit more about kind of who you are, of course, we, we gave a little bit of that in the intro, but I'd love to learn kind of, you know, who are you, you know, you talk about Bal-A-Vis-X, and we'll get there in a second. But, you know, kind of as a fierce advocate. So, tell me a little bit more about your, if you would, about your personal journey and your professional journey. Who are you? And how did you kind of get to where you are?
Meagan Baldwin 5:27
Sure. So, the personal journey, that began in May of 2003, when our youngest son was born. He was a preemie and all of the things that go with NICU stays. And very early, early childhood special education services were put in place very early with him, which we were fortunate to have. And then as he began, school, things started to get harder. And I felt like his needs were way different than what anybody else needed. And that he needed to have a voice at that point. And that was my job was to be the voice for him in, in a public school system. And I was teaching in a public school system, so I was blessed to have the language that I needed, so that I can get folks to listen. So, one of the things that I really, one of the things that I'm really passionate about is making sure that our parents understand their rights, and understand that they are the most important part of their team. And they are the experts when it comes to the care and giving of their, the care of their children and their education. So that's something I'm really passionate about. I've always worked in Title One or lower income schools. And so empowering families that come through that that's been a big part of my journey. As far as I, I was able to walk it first and sometimes was when you know, when he was little in elementary school, we were walking it together. So that was a real gift to be able to support those families of my students, which took me from being a general education teacher into being a special education teacher. So, I went back when, when the kids were real small, and I got a degree in, a master's degree in instructional design. And then I had to go back later, and people often asked me, “Hey Meg, like, why do you have two master’s degrees?” And I--my answer is because I didn't do it right the first time. Like, I didn't get my, I didn't hit my target the first time. So that's where I spent general education and special education. And then about five years ago, I worked at an elementary school that was going into the re--, the Kansas redesign process, which it was an, the idea was is that elementary schools could take a really close look at the children and the families who walked into their doors every single day, and to redesign their instruction in their environment around the needs of those families. And that's where, you know, the regulation space work began. And that's what I'm still doing today. So, I still work a full-time job, I still walk into an elementary school every single day, and this year, a brand new one. So--
Guy Stephens 8:12
And what do you what do you do at the elementary school? Are you?
Meagan Baldwin 8:14
So, my title is I'm a regulation coach. So, we have filtered out that I spend about 50% of my time supporting kids directly and then I spend the other part of my time supporting teachers directly. In like Tier One regulation strategies.
Guy Stephens 8:30
The title alone, I love that title of regulation, uh regulation coach. Yeah. Tell me more about that. Tell me what, what does that look like?
Meagan Baldwin 8:38
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so it is, we really, we take a look at the kids from the lens of their brain biology, and where might those disruptions have taken place? And what behaviors are they showing us? And then what targeted interventions can, what brain-aligned, brain-friendly, targeted interventions can we put in place to help those kids regulate within the classroom? And when we say regulate, sometimes people want us--, think that that just means calm, and that doesn't always mean calm. What we like to think of regulation as is my energy matches the situation in which I'm in.
Guy Stephens 9:17
Fantastic. And you mentioned having a role with staff as well. And I'm a big believer in kind of, you know, we the adults, the staff, we come first, you know, first we have to be regulated because we're not going to help somebody else if we're not regulated. But also, I mean, from the, from the, you know, kind of overused analogy of put your seatbelt on first before you help someone else. You know, I think it's really important that, you know, this is a tough time. This is a tough role. And, you know, it's important that educators are getting what they need and taking care of themselves. And it's easy sometimes when you are a person that wants to help to put others needs in front of yourself. But your regulatory needs are really important. So, what are you doing in terms of helping educators?
Meagan Baldwin 10:01
So, I was lucky enough to, to come into the situation with a staff that is not brand new to this information. So, James Moffet, the principal here has, he's got a four year start on me. So, we are really working now on helping those educators to-- they are well regulated themselves. So now we're really focusing on okay, what are those tier one things that we can do for all of our kids first, and then we can really take a deep dive into the, the kids that that tier one just isn't enough and what can we do for them?
Guy Stephens 10:35
I want to share a couple things here real quick. And I'm going to go back a little in time in your discussion. So first of all, you mentioned James, and James is here and says, “Go Meg,” and says you're really a rock star. And of course, you know, we've talked to James before, and he was in fact in a special event that we had done at one point, love the work that he's doing, and kind of the philosophy that he brings to the school. So, James says hello. We've got Jason here, Meg is--a, you've got, you've got a, you've got a following here. I mean, I can tell you that there's a following here that are leaving comments. “Meg is awesome, proud to be part of the amazing, Bal-A-Vis-X family. Thank you both for doing this.” Another mutual friend here, Dustin Springer, “rock star Meg! My energy matches the situation I'm in!!!” which is often a rock concert, I'm always seeing Dustin show…uh…and anyway, lots of people joining. And we have Daniel Lewis, educator from Detroit, Michigan. Lots of people joining in. I want to go back for a second in your story and talking about kind of advocacy. And you were sharing your own story. Sometimes I think people make the assumption that if you're an educator, you're in education, you're working in a school, and your child has an IEP or a 504. Somehow, it's going to be easier for you somehow, you know, you have the relationships and everything, you're gonna just get everything. And what I found, because your situation is not unique, is that, you know, often it's really, really tough, often as an as a parent, and an educator, regardless of whether it's your school or another school that your children are in, things can actually be even more challenging to a certain degree. Certainly, you have a language, and that's helpful. But I mean, was it challenging for you at times? And, and how did you, you know, how did you, because we, I think we all know that it can be a process. Although the intent is certainly there to help kids, the process, the process can be sometimes unnecessarily adversarial. There's other things that can happen. How did you navigate that process? And were there certain things that made it more difficult as an educator?
Meagan Baldwin 12:46
Oh, sure. I think that I mean, when you have when you have a child that the needs are just are so much different than the rest of them. And sometimes those needs are brand new to people, I think that sometimes there's a great there's a there's a game of the blame and shame game that's comes in. And that, you know, there were, there were many IEP meetings when he was very little that we felt there was a lot of the what we're seeing at school is your faults, and that you should be able to take care of this. I can try harder, right? Let's just try harder, just try harder, or Hey, see some more doctors. Right? Right. You know, that also might help. And here's some books to read. Those kinds of things. So that like, there are times like I even consider that to be like a part of like even a chronic stress, you know, how we know what chronic stress does to people. And being the parent of a child with a disability, that can be very stressful chronically over time. Because that stress doesn't just come up at the yearly IEP meetings, or the that stress doesn't just come up when the nine weeks progress report comes home, you know that that stress sometimes can come up daily, or sometimes a couple of times a day. And I guess the other thing that was really interesting to me, that that was really hard for us was that in the system we were in, it very much felt like the different departments that were working with our child were all working in silos. And so they were they had trouble communicating with each other. And I think sometimes that caused more harm than good and things took a lot longer. The process took longer. And I don't think they sometimes realized that like say something would happen in the special education classroom and it was just a little deal. Well, they didn't realize that something had also happened in the lunch room and something had also happened on the playground, because they were working in such silos that they weren't communicating with each other.
Guy Stephens 14:57
You said something else that really resonated with me, when you were talking about kind of helping other families and, you know, I think is often is the case, sometimes when you go through this process and you whether you want to or not have to learn how to navigate the process.
Meagan Baldwin 15:15
Yes! Absolutely!
Guy Stephens 15:16
I remember early on reading From Emotions to Advocacy from, from Pete Wright and diving into the IDA website and trying to figure out all of these things and to be able to, you know, do what really is probably my most important job in the world, which is advocating for my children and making sure that they're successful. But you mentioned, you know, something about advice that you give to families. And I think it's so critical that people realize that they in fact, are the experts on their child. But you know, it very often the environment is not set up in a way that sees and respects that, I mean, very often parents feel a little overwhelmed. And it can be, you know, if you're surrounded by six people with lots of letters after their name, talking about your child, and often you feel like your opinion doesn't count. But it's so important for parents to realize that they really are the experts on their child. And of course, our children are experts on themselves. But it's a shift, it's a tough shift for people to make sometimes. So I love that you said that, and I couldn't agree with you more, it's such an important thing for people to realize and advocating that, you know, they, they really do bring so much to the conversation, if something doesn't seem right or feel right. You know, it's important for people to ask questions and understand, but a tough process. So you've definitely come up, you know, through this kind of through multiple, you know, which I believe probably makes you even, you know, better qualified in terms of, you know, being an educator and being empathetic and helping parents, not to say that everybody has to have that experience. But certainly, I'm sure you have a level of understanding. So before we get into really talking about what you do now, and Bal-A-Vis-X, tell me a little bit about your journey in terms of I know that you are, you know, you are somebody that's looking through a trauma informed lens, and that you are somebody, as I look over your shoulder and see your diagrams there of the brain, that you're very aligned with kind of the, the science out there. You know, we often say at the Alliance, when, when people ask us, like, you know, the questions like “What do you want us to do instead?” Or “What's, what's the approach?” We often say, trauma informed, neuroscience align, relationship driven and collaborative, right? Those are the essence of things that I think are really, really critical. So tell me a little bit about your journey in terms of kind of getting into a trauma informed space and into the brain science piece of this as well.
Meagan Baldwin 17:39
Sure. So it was, where it all began was so interesting, now that I go back and look at it, because this was such happenchance was that we, I knew a child psychiatrist who we were not their, we were not her patient, but we were her friend. And we were just talking about, like, just the struggles that, that kids were having in schools, and she gifted me a book. And it's not the first one that a lot of people have read. But the first one that that got me going was Dr. Perry's Born for Love. So that was my very first book, and that that got me like into his work. And that just sent me down that rabbit hole, and then it, I, in my job, my job is hard, and my job has been hard for a long time, we can't do this work alone. And I've always had the mindset of if I can learn something that is somehow going to make my job easier then I need to learn those things. And I have found that trauma informed and brain aligned and brain friendly strategies actually make my job easier. So that’s where I---
Guy Stephens 18:54
And, of course, there's an and there. Not only do they make your life easier, and they're better for the students, and they're better for the staff. You know, I mean, it really is so important that there's, there's so much benefit to doing that. So a couple more just comments here to share. We've got Brianna saying here again, “Meg is amazing.” You've got you've got a great list of supporters here. We have Mary that’s thrilled to catch this, “I'm a mom from New York State and now homeschooling my nonspeaking, six year old son as he recovers from trauma in public schools. We're so grateful for this help.” And that brings up a great point that although we think about, you know, a lot of schools moving and shifting into trauma informed approaches, there are a lot of places that haven't, and there are a lot of places that are on that journey that still are inadvertently causing trauma. There's a lot of practices out there that maybe have good intent but are really harmful for kids and we've got a lot of work to do for sure. And that's why we do programs like yours are so critical. Somebody else saying hello from Warsaw, Indiana. And anyway, just a lot of people jumping in here. And we'll keep going. But so you had this journey personally, and this led you on this journey in terms of, you know, getting into the traumas informed space and getting into the brain science. So let's talk a little bit about what you're doing now and Bal-A-Vis-X. So can you tell us first of all, what is Bal-A-Vis-X ?
Meagan Baldwin 20:27
Sure, Bal-A-Vis-X is an acronym for balance auditory vision exercises. And it's a series of about 200-ish exercises that are patterned, repetitive rhythmic movements. And we use sandbags and racket balls. And we have individual exercises and partner exercises and small group exercises, and large group exercises. But the most powerful thing about Bal-A-Vis-X is that it's all based on physical technique that anyone can learn. It's not based on luck. It's not based on if you are musical. It's not based on if you are naturally rhythmic, or naturally athletic. It is based on physical technique that we can teach you to do. And we can teach just about any human to replicate that technique.
Guy Stephens 21:17
And what's the purpose? So I mean, you know, we have these exercises, what's the purpose why Bal-A-Vis-X?
Meagan Baldwin 21:24
So in our work, we know that pattern, repetitive rhythmic movement is good for the brain. The brain enjoys, pattern and repetitive and it helps multitudes of, you know, how just how our brain functions because that's where we, you know, we come from rhythm, life starts with rhythm, you know, even in utero, and Bal-A-Vis-X, and you can, you can get the same kind of benefit from things like running, or swimming, or biking, those are all great pattern, repetitive rhythmic movement activities, they're just not super classroom friendly. So Bal-A-Vis-X is something that that is classroom friendly, we can bring this into a building, we can bring it into a classroom, we can bring it into a nursing home.
Guy Stephens 22:08
And forgive my simple line of questioning here. But, but, but, another why, and the why is, well, why would we bring it in our classroom? So, it's these exercises, you can bring them into the classroom. What's the, you know, what's the underlying reason why somebody might bring these in? And what might they, what benefit might they gain from that approach?
Meagan Baldwin 22:28
Sure. So, so the benefits of Bal-A-Vis-X are very wide and very deep. So, I'll try and hit these just kind of quickly. But when we're looking at regulating the system, when we're looking at regulating the brain pattern, repetitive rhythmic movement, regulates our nervous system, and also promotes like neural connections and healing and all of those kinds of things. So, idea number two, is that when we get into some of the group exercises, that we can physically practice some of those executive functioning skills, things like working memory, things like decision making, things like impulse control. We can use these exercises to create conditions to where we can physically practice those skills with kids. And then our third area that we focus on is this CASEL core competencies, those SEL core competencies. And when we put the exercises into a small group, then we can also physically practice those skills.
Guy Stephens 23:30
So, I want to drill down into number one, because number one has a lot of importance to the work that we do here. And, and that is, you know, people are often looking for what do I do instead, and instead is often instead of things that they're doing that aren't working, which might be restraining and secluding a kid, might mean suspending or expelling a kid, but really, what it means is we have a dysregulated kid whose needs aren't being met. So, thinking through that lens of, of a dysregulated kid. So, these techniques are, as I understand it, things that can help people to help people to become regulated. So how, how in practice, might somebody use these things? You know, not only in a sense of, well, let me just stop the question there and say, you know, to make kids aware of their own feelings and sensations and how, how it feels to be dysregulated or regulated, how was this used in practice?
Meagan Baldwin 24:26
Sure, so the, the exercises also require focus and attention. And so there, we have had folks refer to Bal-A-Vis-X as being a type of physical mindfulness. And so, you have, you, it requires our focus and our attention and for us to be in that moment. And when we have an exercise and we are performing that and we are using it as a mindfulness activity, the minute that we lose focus, we might, the racquet balls might fall to the floor and that's instant feedback that tells me I need to check in with my body and say, “Okay, what, what am I feeling right now? What is that, the second when I become unfocused, what does that feel like?” Because they were able to see it, they were able to see that they were unfocused. Right? So as far as the pattern, repetitive rhythmic movement, that is something that with Bal-A-Vis-X, it's, it's very powerful. And I, I wish I had a better elevator speech, but we do have some video. Oh, yeah, yep, yep. Okay, yeah. Can we just pull up a couple of examples, we can kind of talk about what folks are seeing?
Guy Stephens 25:44
Absolutely, you want me to start out with “everyone”?
Meagan Baldwin 25:46
Yeah. Go ahead. And that’s just a 42nd clip that gives kind of everybody kind of an idea of what it looks like.
Guy Stephens 25:51
Okay. Oh, and we don't even have any ads, that's great. So that's just kind of showing you, could you talk us through that? What, I mean, what we're looking at there?
Meagan Baldwin 26:31
Sure, absolutely. So, what you're seeing there is, you're seeing some small group exercises of a very, yeah, this is okay. So if you,
Guy Stephens 26:41
Did it go forward there? Yeah, let me try to go back.
Meagan Baldwin 26:45
But that’s okay. Because that next one is a really good example that I'll talk through in a second. But the first one, that is just a sampling. And I made that video to prove the point that Bal-A-Vis-X is for everyone. And when I say everyone, I'm not joking about that. The techniques are simple enough that we can, we can have any human being can learn them. And if they can't learn them, then we have 1000 modifications we can make so that everyone can participate. So, in that first video, you also saw, if you probably heard it, that the sandbag exercise was also the same rhythm as the racquetball exercise. So, the exercises then can be overlaid on top of one another, depending on the skill and ability. So that leads to no one's ever left out.
Guy Stephens 27:39
Gotcha, gotcha.
Meagan Baldwin 27:40
Everyone, everyone can be a part of that group rhythmic experience.
Guy Stephens 27:44
And from a, from a kind of neuroscience lens here. When we're doing that, you know, that rhythmic motion, you know, what's happening in our brain or nervous system? You know, I mean, you compare this to kind of focused attention, but are we seeing the same kind of, you know, changes in our nervous system in terms of like our parasympathetic nervous system, and in helping us to gain calm? Is that, is that what we're seeing happen here?
Meagan Baldwin 28:18
Right, I think that's what we're seeing happen. I often compare it or liken it to the, to rocking a baby in a rocking chair. It's just about the same rhythm. Rocking a baby in a rocking chair. It's patterned, it's repetitive, and it's rhythmic.
Guy Stephens 28:36
Okay, so do you want me to move on to another one of these videos?
Meagan Baldwin 28:38
Go ahead. This one, as we watch this one, what you're seeing here is when the person who has two bags at a time this skill that they are practicing is the pause, or the wait. We ask kids and we ask kids to wait for something all the time and that waiting is nebulous. What does that mean? That particular exercise, they can see what it means to wait.
Guy Stephens 29:12
So I'm trying to get back to my list here. Oh, all right. There we go. So let me ask you a question. I'm, again, I'm trying to envision, you know, in practice, and I can imagine that this is at times, and I'm just imagining, so you could tell me, I'm totally wrong here. But I would imagine at times, this is like a, a planned activity that you're doing with a group of students, or you might be doing with even a smaller group and maybe a setting where people are working on certain skills. What about, one of the things that I can imagine, and I might be wrong here, but, you know, let's think about a kid who's having a hard time and sitting in a classroom. You know, might they be able to go to a place in the classroom, a sensory space or somewhere else where they could do these kinds of things. Do you see educators use it in that way that, you know if a student themselves is beginning to feel unregulated that they might use any of these things to help themselves?
Meagan Baldwin 30:08
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. The techniques are simple enough that they can be taught to students to be able to use to use individually. But I think the one of the really powerful pieces about Bal-A-Vis-X is the, when you're with a partner or with a small group, there's that sense of attunement with each other. Like you're all moving together at exactly the same speed. And I believe that that when you're in a group like that, it would be just like being in a drumming circle, where then you can physically feel what it what it feels like to belong to something bigger than yourself.
Guy Stephens 30:42
And it's almost a bit of a serve and return. Right. But something that you could do with again, you mentioned kind of for everyone. Sometimes people look at some of the things that might work out there to help somebody that's becoming dysregulated. And they go “well, that that for a small kid, maybe that's appropriate.” But something like this. I mean, you could even see working with teens or older children, as well, as frankly, anyone as you've kind of pointed out here.
Meagan Baldwin 31:08
Yeah, absolutely. So, the longest standing group that I have, at my studio is actually a group of high school boys who show up every single week, for 30 minutes, and we bounce, catch, clap, and they are there, yes, to regulate their systems, but they're also there, because that's where they belong. And then Bal-A-Vis-X helps to give them a common language.
Guy Stephens 31:35
Right, right. Right. Well, even beyond the common language, it's the connection. Right? So, so you know, I mean, you know, as we were talking earlier, kind of like, what are the things that are really important, and, you know, I shared with you…
Guy Stephens 32:26
Can you hear me?
Meagan Baldwin 32:27
Yep. I’m back.
Guy Stephens 32:29
Okay, I'm back as well. It looks like it was on my end, like the, you know, I told you before we started, like, if something happens, but we've never actually had that happen before. But it looks like my internet was having a little problem here. And I kind of lost my thread. But I think really what I was trying to get at is that the, you know, again, thinking about the advantages here, it's the relational safety, right? Creating a space where people are able to kind of have that serve and return and connect. And, you know, through that connectedness, you know, feel safe and help with regulation. Seems like there's a, there's a lot that can be happening here, when you're doing this, in terms of not only the things that are, are really obvious, but in the connections that are being made as well. Is that part of what you see is kind of a benefit of doing this?
Meagan Baldwin 33:15
Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Especially when you get… some of the most powerful examples are when you have multi age groups of people. So that… I'll just tell you a story. The group of seniors there that, that we've seen the videos of here that, that group is actually run by one of my student assistants, his name is Evan. And he has, he came to me, he has been coming to the studio many, many years. And he decided that Bal-A-Vis-X was something he thought could benefit his grandparents. And so, he started working with them. And that little group evolved and sometimes he has eight or 10 folks on Tuesday afternoons that come to do Bal-A-Vis-X. And those folks are there. Yes, they get benefit from the exercises, but they also get benefit from the social interaction of coming together.
Guy Stephens 34:13
So let me go on to video number three if that works for you.
Meagan Baldwin 34:17
Sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Guy Stephens 34:20
We'll play at once and then replay it
Guy Stephens 34:38
All right, and I'll let you talk about that. And we can replay it if we want to.
Meagan Baldwin 34:42
Sure, absolutely. So, this is a typical exercise. This is kind of like the goal exercise that we teach at a two-day training. This is the two ball rectangle. So, they are using precise physical technique that, that's what it is making those racket balls all strike the floor at exactly the same time. Go ahead, would you play that one more time and let everybody just watch the, the arms of the people now. Don't focus on the ball, but focus on the arms, the bouncing arms of the folks there.
Okay, so those folks actually are all in sync, not because the arm is coming down at the same time, but because the arm is coming up at the same time. That's the cue. So that's one thing that we talk about in Bal-A-Vis-X is what is the cue? What is the cue that tells you what your next physical move is going to be? And if you think about that, in real life, there are a lot of kids and some adults that they struggle with unpredictability, and they struggle with what comes next. And that often is because they don't know what the cue is.
Guy Stephens 36:03
Gotcha, gotcha.
Meagan Baldwin 36:04
What is the cue to what comes next? And so that is that, that's how we physically practice that. The other skill that you saw there was the skill of knowing when is the right time to do something. The example I often give is, you know, students in classrooms who they struggle with, when is the right time to sharpen my pencil? When is the right time to ask my teacher a question. What you saw there was that the, the partner group in the middle started that exercise, they knew what to look for, they knew what cue to look for. And then they then came in as they waited their turn until they came down the line. And the third skill you saw there was impulse control, waiting until it is my turn, I knew where to look. And I knew what the cue was.
Guy Stephens 36:54
Interesting. That's fantastic. All right. Do you want to take a look at this last video here?
Meagan Baldwin 36:58
Sure. Yep.
Guy Stephens 36:59
Okay.
Meagan Baldwin 37:25
Okay, so this one, actually, the most important part about this video is not on the end of this one. And I'm a little bit sad about that. But there was the, these two were working together, and one of them made a mistake. And the most important part about that video was is that they were able to figure that out, they did not need an adult to step in. They knew what the technique was, and they knew what it should look like. And they were able to regulate their systems enough to solve the problem themselves. A physical way to practice solving a problem.
Guy Stephens 37:59
Wow, wow. Well, yeah, that's great. And I have to say, they’re two adorable kids.
Meagan Baldwin 38:04
They are twins. So there, there may have may or may not have been a little bit of prompting before I shot this video.
Guy Stephens 38:11
Sure, sure, sure. Let me remove the screen here. Unless there was anything else you want to share on the screens?
Meagan Baldwin 38:14
No, I think that's good.
Guy Stephens 38:16
Perfect. Yeah, this is really interesting. So, tell me, you know, this, you know, kind of in relation to the trauma informed and you know, brain aligned work that you do, what is, trying to think from a very practical standpoint, like, what is the need that precipitates an educator to think that a solution like this might be something might be helpful in their classroom? So, what is the underlying need that you often see when people are reaching out to you about this? What are they trying to accomplish? And how they determine if they're able to do that?
Meagan Baldwin 38:57
Yeah, absolutely. So what, the need, what we often see is challenging behavior in classrooms or maladaptive behavior, behavior that has served them well, at some point when they know don't need at school anymore. That is often behavior that shows up in things like in inattentiveness, impulsivity, not being able to, trouble working with peers, trouble working in cooperative groups. Those are the behaviors that we can see. And that's why people, and people are to the point now that we know the why behind it. Now we need to know what to do about it.
Guy Stephens 39:33
Right. Right. So, this is kind of part of the,so what to do about it. So yeah, and really, I mean, I'm just thinking about what you've shown us. And really, this is not, this is not just a matter of so, you know, I initially was thinking about it from the standpoint of the regulatory piece, right? Of the rhythmic and motion, but that's only a piece of it. I mean, there's parts of this that are you know, as you mentioned focused on impulse control or predictability. So, there's really a lot more going on here than you might think, when you look at it at a surface value. So I'm going to just go out on a limb here and say, especially with, with very young children, it almost feels like this should be like part of a curriculum, not, not, just something you bring in to add on, because you have a couple of kids that are having a difficult time, but something that would really benefit all, especially very young kids, that are still learning the ropes of being human, right, that are learning, you know, what it means to kind of have a serve and return or, or, you know, kind of waiting for a turn or all of that? I mean, do you find that people are beginning to implement this type of approach? And of course, I'm gonna have you tell me more about the history here in a minute. But, did you find that people are beginning to implement this more kind of as a, you know, not to solve problems, but as a good practice?
Meagan Baldwin 40:58
We are, I cannot go as far as implementation to say that people are implementing it that way. But I do believe people are beginning to get curious. They're beginning to get curious, and what could this look like? And you know, you're right, like, this is a practice that will benefit all kids, challenging behavior or not, there is something in it for all of them. And one of my favorite principles of Bal-A-Vis-X that, that I spent some time talking about during training, and that we've thought about for a long time is that once you've learned an exercise, and that exercise is yours, and you are proficient at that exercise, and you enjoy it, then that doesn't necessarily make you entitled to that exercise that makes you responsible to teach that exercise to someone else. And so, at that point, we take it from I've learned the exercise to the nuances of teaching that exercise to someone else. And as we all know, you know, in the world of education, once you can teach something to someone else, then you've really internalized it.
Guy Stephens 42:05
Absolutely. So, I've got to share this comment because Dustin, put it into the appropriate education terms. What I was trying clumsily to say, but this is really about a tier one practice, right? This is something that you could and should do. And again, I you know, I'm going back to very young kids, but I mean, I think about, I can see the value for any child. But, you know, again, incorporating this into just general programming for kids in preschool and kindergarten, you know, it seems like there would be a tremendous amount of benefit. The expectations that we're often putting on kids now in kindergarten, we push for academics and, you know, things that I think developmentally, not all our kids are even ready for. It seems like something like this would be really good and beneficial. So, Dustin, I hope you're gonna tell me that you're, you're gonna do this as a tier one intervention in your school for kids. So, you know, I'd love to see more of that I think it really could be really useful there. And we've got a couple comments here. Mary says, “agree, this is super cool, really can't wait to share this with our favorite people.” And of course, that's why we do these events is that we want people to hear about good ideas and share them. And we'll talk more in a minute about what they might be able to do to bring these kinds of practices to their school or to their district, or how to get training and our friend Joe, who was talking about you last night, as I told you, yeah, he's on here to say, he had many, many good things to say about you. And a couple of comments here, Jennifer says “reminds me of when I was little on playground, playing song rhyme games, hand clap types of movements and with another, or by yourself.” And Jason said, “generally age six and up, but honestly, any age, a person can grasp it. The great thing is that it's a nonverbal. So literally, anyone can do it.” Lots of great comments. So, I want you to tell me a little bit about and you gave me a little teaser, but I have no idea what the details are here. You said there, there was an interesting kind of origin story behind this. So, so tell me a little bit about where this comes from and, and how you came to it as well.
Meagan Baldwin 44:06
Sure, so Bal-A-Vis-X was like started like, over 30 years ago, by the creator, his name was Bill Hubert. And at the time he was an elementary school teacher in Wichita, Kansas, and he taught first grade. And he noticed over time that the children that he taught, came… fell into three groups. The first group, which was the largest group was the large, was the group of kids that if you gave them the curriculum and you taught the curriculum to them, and they learned it and they moved on and they were ready for the next grade. That was the first group. And then the second group of kids was the kids that struggled a little more but if you gave them a little extra time and a little extra instruction, they usually kicked in between like Christmas and spring break. And then the third group of kids were, that was the group of kids that no matter what you did for them, they still struggled to learn. And so, Bill decided all these years ago that he had to figure out what he was going to do with those struggling learners, or he had to get out of teaching. And he came from a lens of martial arts. He was a martial arts teacher at the time. And so, he began to observe kids through that lens of martial arts. And what he noticed was, is that the struggling learners were also the kids who didn't know how to make a swing go on the playground, or they had trouble walking the balance beam, or they couldn't stand on a chair and jump off and land on two feet. And so, he, he was not a neuroscientist. He was a teacher, and he thought, I wonder if I can remediate some of these outward kind of dysfunctions that I see that I can see with my eyes, would that make a difference in their learning, he didn't know. But he had decided he had to do something for his students. And so, he started to do some reading. And through word of mouth, he heard about this nun at the convent, and her name was Sister Agadia. And the word on the street was, if you had a kid who had trouble learning to read, you took them to see Sister Agadia, and she would help them. And so, he made contact with this nun. And she invited him to come see her workspace. And when he arrived, what he saw was, it looked like a gymnasium. So, she was working with kids on crawling, and climbing, and walking a balance beam. And that is where she, the story goes that Bill, that she gave Bill five minutes of her time, like, that's all she had, like, I got five minutes to share with you. And he walked away with that with the ideas of using your body to help to strengthen your brain or to make learning easier, and that's where it all began.
Guy Stephens 47:01
Fascinating. Well, you know, as you were describing that, you know, more thoughts were going off in my head. And that's why, you know, I love doing these events, as much as for everyone else to enjoy. You know, I learned so much whenever we do these, but as I was thinking about this, you know, again, I was thinking about Bruce Perry, who you mentioned earlier, in kind of some of your early connection to this work. And of course, thinking about Bruce Perry and the neurosequential model, thinking about the idea of, you know, regulate relate reason, thinking about the fact that in order to access our prefrontal cortex, the thinking decision making rational part of our brain, we need to be regulated, we need to feel safe, we need to, you know, to be able to relate. And I was just thinking, Wow, what a great starter for your day for a class, like, how fantastic would it be to before you, you know, let let's turn the on switch on the cortex by doing something like this, before we actually go into something that we're, you know, we expect kids like, sit down and be ready to learn. And wouldn't it make sense if we're priming people to be ready for that? And this seems like it would be a great tool for doing that. And Dustin did respond. And yeah, thank you Dustin. And he said, “We do. Thanks to Meg’s awesome training.” So, another school out there Gray Hawk Elementary, I believe it is. They're doing these things. And that's fantastic. I also have, and I probably may have mentioned, either we get people from all over the world that that join in on our program. And sometimes I'll give examples, we get people from New Zealand and, and almost always on cue when I say that Linda joins. Linda's in New Zealand and talks about Maori stick games. And that, you know, she sees similarities with uh so I’m sure there's other practices that are in the same vein, but again, thinking about that rhythmic, you know activity and kind of engage in the cortex. It seems like there's a lot of a lot of power there. And rather, we often put kids in a room and you know, maybe we sit them in a circle and then expect them to turn on their brains and be ready to go. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. So, you know that that tells us about how this came to be, how did you come to find this and then decide, well, this is really interesting and I'm going to be I'm going to be a practitioner for this. So, what's your story of finding that connection and then beginning to do this work?
Meagan Baldwin 49:28
Yeah, so I was working at a health and wellness magnet school and for Wichita Public Schools and Bill did, the creator did a training every summer at Friends University in July. It was always the same week, always the same three days. And we had a, my principal once, may had some leftover in-service money, and he gave us two choices. And we could either go to Bal-A-Vis-X training, or we could go to math training. And I just, yeah, right? So I decided, yep, I'm gonna go and they, they offered some CEUs. So I can go grab up some grad credit while I was there. And so I went and one of the main things that we like to do during training is we bring in students or individuals, so that the participants can see us working with someone from, from ground zero. What does Bal-A-Vis-X look like when you start like on day one? What does that look like? That's a really valuable part of our training. And at this particular training, he needed volunteers. And so I brought our youngest son in and he was a third grader, we had, he had finished third grade and third grade had been, it was, it was a mess, third grade was really, really hard. And I knew that he we needed to do something. What that was, I had no idea at the time. And so, I brought him, and we then spent the next year or so working privately, you know, with Bill in his studio. And what it did is it turned Kalin from an I can't kid into an I can kid, like I can give I can try something once and that was the biggest benefit. And it was at that point, I took that training. And then I was teaching general education at the time, I was teaching in a fifth grade classroom. And luckily, there had been a few other folks in my building who had attended the training the year before. So, I had some mentors in the building. And I had just the right amount of support. And I had a principal who then supplied my classroom with the sandbags and the racket balls. And that was about the time that kids were starting to struggle with like attention spans and getting task initiation, getting started on things. And I thought, you know what, these worksheets and all these overheads, this is not working for me, I had kind of had the same idea that Bill had, like I have to figure out how to help these kids or I have to get out of education. And so that, it was a, it was a group of 15 fifth graders and that, I still remember them. They were my very first group and we got out the sandbags. And we muddled our way through it. And the differences I just saw in their attitudes towards learning. That is what really changed first. You know, and maybe I had a young student at the time, who was very shy and spent a lot of time just sitting by himself and would have just rather, you know, have crawled under the table and hung out. And by the you know, by the end of the year, he had his own kit, and he was checking himself, you know, downstairs to work with the little kids. So, yeah, based on a technique that he could learn and be successful at.
Guy Stephens 52:45
Right, right, right.
Meagan Baldwin 52:48
So that's, yeah, that's where my journey started. And ever since then, it, I've used it in every educational setting that that I've been in.
Guy Stephens 52:56
So not only use it, but you actually and correct me if I'm wrong here, but you actually do consulting and teach people how to do this and teach people how to implement it? Can you talk a little bit more about the kind of work that you’re doing to help others to do this?
Meagan Baldwin 53:10
Yeah, so I have, I have a home studio where I do see kids privately. And I think that that's something I'll never give up because I learned so much from those individual sessions from when kids show up and their caregivers. And I mean, that's another super powerful way is that like when this when they show up to a private session, not only are the kids learning the exercises, the caregivers are learning right alongside them, so that they can implement those exercises throughout the week. So again, it's something simple enough, the technique is simple enough that I can teach it to them fairly quickly. As far as training goes, yeah, we have a sprinkling of trainers across the country, that everybody has kind of their different specialties. And so, the basic training is a two-day foundational training. That's like where we like to start most folks and that will get you the sandbag exercises, and the beginning racquetball stuff. And then what we often see is people come for two days. And then they go back and they use it. And then we often tell people, eventually you're going to have some people in your life who ask you what's next. Like we've exhausted the exercises we learned in the first few days, then those are the people who come back for additional training.
Guy Stephens 54:30
So where can people go to find trainers that might be near them? I mean, I know I've seen you travel around the country sometimes. But are there are there lists somewhere where people can find trainers?
Meagan Baldwin 54:43
There is not currently a list but the best way to do that is just to contact me directly. And then I can either help them out with what they need or I can contact them with a trainer that happens to be in the area. We are kind of at a, at a spot where we're trying, we're kind of restructuring a little bit. Bill passed away in June. And so, his daughter Kate has graciously taken over the, the corporate part of Bal-A-Vis-X. And we are working our way through that. But if people would contact me, they can go to the web, go to my website, there's a Contact Me page, and they can shoot me an email, and then I can get them connected, either with one of my trainings or a trainer that happens to be in their area, we don't have very many. So, at this point, and so that, if you just contact me, that'll be the best way.
Guy Stephens 55:31
And you said that initial training was a two-day training. Is that what you said?
Meagan Baldwin 55:34
Yeah, the initial training is a two day training.
Guy Stephens 55:37
Okay, gotcha. And you know, how many staff members might you train at a school? When you--?
Meagan Baldwin 55:41
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, we have, we kept those trainings at 40 people. So that often comes with my, the trainer plus, an assistant, depending on kind of the makeup on the training, like if it's a training of 40 brand new people who have never done any of the exercises before, then we'll bring in reinforcements. Now, if we're working at a spot where maybe 10 of them have had initial training, and then we have 30 new people we might not need an assistant, just kind of depends on the makeup of the group.
Guy Stephens 56:10
Gotcha. And depending on the school, you know, the number of classrooms and whatnot. Do they, the supplies they need, I mean, it doesn't sound like it's, I mean, the supplies are somewhat simple, but at the same time do, do you offer supplies through Bal-A-Vis-X or, you know, how do they get the things they need? And…
Meagan Baldwin 56:31
Right, so we have a separate company, Britt and Laurie run Bal-A-Vis-X resources. And they had to make all of the sandbags one at a time they sew them from hand and then they import the racket balls. So, the, the, and then the balance boards, those are all, again, handmade by Marty who lives in Wichita, Kansas. Yeah, so Britt and Laurie are just in a little town outside of Andover. But we can all work together on how to how to get that, the, the supplies are not expensive, a pair of sandbags will run you about $5. And then the racket balls will run you about $13 a dozen.
Guy Stephens 57:09
Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, I just I just found a page of Bal-A-Vis-X resources.
Meagan Baldwin 57:15
Yes, that’s them. Yep. That's where you can, and you can also get books and DVDs and things like that from, from their website.
Guy Stephens 57:21
So again, I mean, you know, I don't I don't know what the cost of training runs. But I mean, in theory, this is not something that would cost the fortune for a school to begin to implement?
Meagan Baldwin 57:30
Correct. We try to keep it very reasonable. So that one of the things that is really important to us is accessibility.
Guy Stephens 57:37
Gotcha, gotcha. And tell me, talk to me a little bit about, you know, what, what you've done, or what's been done to kind of quantify in some way the results, right? So, you know, obviously, you're doing this to get certain outcomes. You know, has there been research? Or do you have case studies that you share? Or, you know, if somebody said, “Okay, well, you know, this all sounds great. Show me something that shows me that this gets results.” Do you have any case studies or data that kind of support some of the changes that you've seen in schools?
Meagan Baldwin 58:16
Sure, yeah, so, um, there are a few small case studies that have been done by educators. And then actually, we just like, within literally the past 30 to 60 days, we've had two articles that have been published, one by a PhD student out of the University of Oklahoma, and one from a PhD student at James Madison University.
Guy Stephens 58:40
Oh, fantastic. That's fantastic that those are coming. But my question was timely. So, are those out now?
Meagan Baldwin 58:45
They are they are. And you can I'm not sure that that those actually have I believe been posted on my website. So, if you go to the website, there's a tab that I think it says resources. Now. It's a pamphlet and like, that will definitely answer anybody's questions. There's a I think there's a tab that says something about research studies and resources or something like that.
Guy Stephens 59:08
Fantastic. That's great. I mean, I think, you know, I think it's helpful for I mean, ultimately, I mean, what I would love and whether or not this happens or not, but I would love to know that there's somebody that's watching this today, an educator or an administrator, somebody says, “Hey, this is really interesting, we should try this.” And maybe they have to make the case to their district. And it's great to have resources that you can go, “Hey, here's a couple of papers on this and what it does.” And of course, I hope they share this interview as well, because it's a great way to learn more about it. So that's fantastic. I want to remind folks that are watching now, live, that if you have any questions or comments, feel free to put those in the chat. We've got a few more minutes here. So, we're happy to, happy to take some questions and let me look and see what's in here now that I've missed while we've been talking and of course, Dustin there again, “Meg is he way to go.” So, it sounds like you've got some strong personal endorsements. James also, “I also strongly agree, I encourage you to bring Meg to your school or district to train the staff.” And let's see, oh, it looks like you've got a training coming up in Kansas.
Meagan Baldwin 1:00:15
Yeah on the 28th. That is that is a one-day training. Now, I will say that we can negotiate one-day trainings, but the expense that it's going to cost you to bring a trainer to your area for just one day, it's more economical to bring somebody in for two. One-days are usually kind of local, regional, where people can get in one day and get back.
Guy Stephens 1:00:38
Gotcha. Now, is that an open event that other people can sign up for?
Meagan Baldwin 1:00:42
Yeah. There's, there's a link to the website, on the website that says training info, and they click on that there's a link to register.
Guy Stephens 1:00:48
Fantastic. And that's where they will go for any other open events.
Meagan Baldwin 1:00:51
Yeah, absolutely. And then if they are, if they don't see something on the website that works for them, if they will email me, I can put them in contact with where we can get the schedule. But I think right now we have three or four on the on the docket for the end of the year across the country.
Guy Stephens 1:01:07
Fantastic. And if you don't mind, and let me find it here. Do you mind if I put your email on chat?
Meagan Baldwin 1:01:12:
Oh, no, please do. Please do.
Guy Stephens 1:01:15
Yeah and the address I have is a Gmail, is that appropriate?
Meagan Baldwin 1:01:17
Correct.
Guy Stephens 1:01:18
Okay, perfect. Just want to make sure. Don’t wanna have the wrong address here. So, I will go ahead and put that in the chat here for people that want to contact you.
Meagan Baldwin 1:01:26
Yeah and I would also like, an open invitation to if we have a researcher out there who wants to specifically look at Bal-A-Vis-X and outcomes that we would be open to that conversation.
Guy Stephens 1:01:38
That's great.
Meagan Baldwin 1:01:39
It's certainly an area we, we need to, we would, we would welcome more research done on Bal-A-Vis-X.
Guy Stephens 1:01:47
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm just thinking that could be a really great thesis project as well, you know, or dissertation or something. Excellent. So have a comment here from Jason, “I like to say a Bal-A-Vis-X is as close to a panacea as you will find for neurological and psychological conditions.”
Meagan Baldwin 1:02:04
So, Jason is a combat vet, and he uses Bal-A-Vis-X in his practice right outside of Fort Riley.
Guy Stephens 1:02:14
Oh, that's fantastic.
Meagan Baldwin 1:02:17
And I think I have to acknowledge, like, I can't do this work alone, I have a huge support system of people who cheer me on. So I just have to acknowledge all those folks that are, that have shown up today and to say--
Guy Stephens 1:02:29
Yeah, no, it's, it's very apparent that you do and I mean, it says a lot. Because, you know, one, I know a number of the people that are showing up here today in support of the work that you're doing, people that we both probably know, and I think really highly of, but it just is a testament to the work that you're doing and the belief that people have in this work, and I think it's really fantastic. So, you also, I know, aside from, you know, I mean, you're, you're busy person, you've got a full time job, you do, you do consulting, I know you also speak at conferences and events and anything you have coming up in that vein?
Meagan Baldwin 1:03:04
Yeah, so I'll be at Bridging to Resilience, which is coming up, put on by ESSDACK that will be the first week of November, I believe, it will be in Wichita, Kansas for a couple of days, and Zach--
Guy Stephens 1:03:18
I’ll be there, too. So I'll get to see you.
Meagan Baldwin 1:03:21
Zack has worked really hard to make that an accessible conference to folks, they brought it back to Wichita. The venue is very conducive to learning and to collaborating. So, I would encourage anyone who could get here for that. That's, it's just. There, Thanks, James. November 6th through 8th. It will be in Wichita. And then we will be gathering together in February for the Attachment Trauma Network Conference in Dallas.
Guy Stephens 1:03:51
Fantastic. Excellent. Well, this has been a great conversation I really enjoy learning. In fact, you know, I almost feel like you know, I wish we could virtually do this because I'm gonna have to come to one of your sessions and learn more and actually have the experience.
Meagan Baldwin 1:04:06
I will find you at Bridging to Resilience, I'll give you, we’ll have a little lesson.
Guy Stephens 1:04:10
Alright. Sounds good. Sounds good. So, unless there's any further questions, I'm just looking to see if anybody has any other questions in the chat. Anything else that you want to leave us with here today? Any anything else you want to share with folks about you your work your, you know, kind of where you're heading in the future? I'll just give you the floor and feel free to share whatever you’d like.
Meagan Baldwin 1:04:31
I just, I mean, people just have to know that we cannot do this work alone. It's too hard. We have to find likeminded folks. And we have to keep learning and we have to keep asking questions. And we have to show up to the table curious every single day. We have to lead with curiosity. And I think that is where folks really decide to give Bal-A-Vis-X a try is when they're in that mode of curiosity.
Guy Stephens 1:04:59
I couldn't agree with you more. Curiosity is so critical, I think to not only helping kids but helping ourselves. Sometimes we get stuck there. And we make a lot of assumptions about children. But we also make a lot of assumptions about ourselves. So, yeah, fantastic. Well, Joe just weighed in and, like, need to get the final word here said, “this was amazing.” So, I want to thank you for spending some time with us this afternoon and sharing about this. I've been looking forward to this because I've been wanting to, wanting to learn more. And I wanted actually, frankly, to learn more about you too, because I know we've met but only really briefly, and your name comes up frequently in the work that you're doing. So, appreciate all that you're out there doing. And, you know, this is how change gets made. So, thank you so much for being here today.
Meagan Baldwin 1:05:49
Thanks for having me. It was fun.
Guy Stephens 1:05:52
Absolutely. Good. Good. I'm glad it was fun. I always tell people it will be fun. And maybe that's why it's because I have fun doing these and I hope everybody else does as well. We got a lot of people kind of let's see and “we need this training down here in Texas.” Okay, so…
Meagan Baldwin 1:06:03
Well, if Claudia wants to send me an email, I've got about three requests from Texas sitting in my inbox right now. So, certainly we can work something out.
Guy Stephens 1:06:13
Yeah, well, you know, one of the things that was floating through my head, and, and I have no way to magically make this happen, but wouldn't it be great if and you know, thinking, oh, gosh, I'd love to have a stack of some grant money to go towards something, I mean, it could be a really compelling thing to be able to offer, you know, be able to offer so, a number of more comments rolling in here. “I am so grateful to have been here. I'm going to spread this great info. Thank you Meghan!” And from New Zealand, you have a thank you as well. So, know that what you're talking about today is working its way around the world. So, thank you for all you do. We will thank you everybody for watching today and invite them to join us again. We'll be here again in two weeks with another great, another great show, and I look forward to seeing you then. So, Meg, if you want to hold on for a second, I’ll thank everybody else and we'll see you next time. Bye-bye.
Meagan Baldwin 1:07:02
Bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
